Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Help with testing

I am new here so please forgive my lack of knowledge.
I have an 8yo 3rd grader.
I just got back test results.
He was tested at my request due to lots of boredom, fidgeting, lack of attention at school.
His results seem all over the place:
Wisc-iv
Sim:17
Vocab:17
Comp:10

Block:15
Picture:15
Matrix: 14

Didget Span:13
L-N Seq: 12

Coding:10
Symb S:10

Verbal Comp:128
Percep: 129
Working Memory:113
Processing Speed: 100
FS: 125

His achievement test scores were average/highaverage with the exception of Math Reasoning, Superior.
The only other testing he has done is the SCAT when he was in 2nd grade and he was 94%-ile verbal and 97%-tile math compared to 4th grade.
I have done very little formal instuction with him at home, so all his "book learning" is at school. I do know he is very mathmatical. Any time I have explained math to him, well beyond his level, he gets it immediately.
He is a fast learner and a fast worker. He hates the repetition of school. He is very mechanically inclined,does lots of "sciency" things at home, teaches me about electronics (and I am an engineer), and one of his teachers said he was an amazing problem solver. He has great spacial skills. He once drew out directions for folding a paper airplane that he had come up with in his mind, before ever folding the paper.
So the school psych. comments that his scores suggest a weakness when working with non-crystallized info, learning new concepts (WHAT?), and needing sustained attn. She suggests he needs to be eval. for ADHD and doesn't seem to think his scores suggest giftedness. she seemed kind of smug about it.
We have no gifted program of any kind at our small, city school.
I think these scores seem oddly scattered but have very little knowledge about IQ tests. I know she has very little knowledge in testing gifted students - she almost exclusively tests for LDs. They also don't seem to reflect my son as I know him. I have since learned about GAI which I think in his case would be 133.
Does anyone have any insight into this? Thanks in advance for any help.

my quick take is the psychologist is not interpreting the results correctly if she thinks these scores point to weaknesses in non-crystallized info and learning concepts. Quite the contrary!! Concepts for him will be the easy part. Its my understanding that non-crystallized (fluid) intelligence is measured by block design (15), matrix reasoning (14), picture concepts (15) while Crystallized intelligence is measured by Vocabulary (17), Similarities (17) and Comprehension (10). Your DS was strong in ALL of these, resulting in the 128 and 129 index scores..

however, his processing speed being weakest MAY point to weakness in "executive function" skills (which can include ADHD, etc) but since its not super-low its just a suggestion. So her comment about sustained attention is not totally from left field. Also the two 17s and high GAI point to being gifted in some ways & could explain a lot of the boredom.

My DS7 has a similar profile and its very frustrating for him and us, so i totally understand

He was tested in one day. I think he said he did most of it right before lunch but had to go back to finish up.
I don't really understand the achievement part. If he has only been taught up to a certain level in school, isn't that what he should be expected to know? He does have a habit of rushing through work sometimes. Also, this year it has taken him a little bit of time to get back in the groove with school work. I feel like his achievement scores would have been better last June!
Also, are those good SCAT scores? I don't quite get what they mean - where they put him compared to other kids.

Thank you so much for your help.
He was given the WIAT-II and scores were as follows:
Word reading 111 - High Av
Pseudoword Decoding 107 - Av
Reading Comp 117 - High Av
Numerical Op 97-Average (I find this bizarre - he is a really good math student)
Math Reasoning - 126 - Superior
Spelling - 99 - Av
Written expression - 105 Av

He is actually a terrible speller so I am happy with the average there!
The Psych. said during num. op. he was working his problems from left to right. He doesn't normally do this!
Written expression is not his best area - he will do the bare minimum because he does not like the physical act of handwriting.
I don't really know anything about the reading sections.
His scaled Scat scores were 448(v) 458(m). He took the test after eligibility for awards was past. The scores did fall at the high end of the curve but I just didn't make much of it.
I am finding this school testing (achievement and IQ)suspect but then I think maybe I am in denial and my kid just isn't as smart as I think he is.
He does well in school, can get a 100% on anything he chooses to, and I don't think he has ever been challenged there. There is no differentiated instruction outside of 3 reading groups, no gifted program. I feel like the psychologist wasn't interested in finding out what my son's potential is because they have no resources for him. She is very over worked in an underbudgeted school district with a large special need population.

I think he did extremely well on the scat because that is his thing. He is really good at reasoning. I think he was also highly motivated and excited about doing the test becuase I taked about it with him beforehand. I told him there were prizes for doing well. He liked going to the testing center and taking the time off of school.
I suspect he didn't have the motivation when doing the achievement testing. I didn't have any forewarning when the test was going to take place so I didn't talk to him about it. I request the eval in June and they did it in October. He is not really motivated by grades. He will rush through things he is not interested in to get to what he likes. He has told me this. My guess is that he was not interested after doing the IQ test the same day and he wanted to get to lunch/recess, his favorite part of the day.
I think I will use what I have now to try and get his teacher to up the challenge in his work, especially math. In the spring i may have him retested by someone who is familiar with gifted kids.
I do have another question about the WISC. His Comp. score seems off from the rest in that group. Is this odd?
Wisc-iv
Sim:17
Vocab:17
Comp:10
Thanks so much.

I would like to give my insight on Comprehension. It tests open-ended verbal reasoning (as opposed to Similarities which is very structured and tests verbal abstract reasoning and concept formation). Here are examples of WISC Comprehension questions:

--Why do we have laws?
--Why do we cook food?
--In what two ways is a lamp better than a candle?
--Why are streets numbered in order?
--What does "to kill two birds with one stone" mean?

As you can see, these questions require one to demonstrate goal directed, logical thinking, to be simultaneously concise and complete because responses that are too long are perceived as tangential and responses that are too short do not reveal reasoning. In other words, this test requires adaptive responses. So I would look at whether he has problems with open-ended questions.

Interesting. She did note in the report that he was succinct in his answers and didn't go into much detail. He can be like that if he is annoyed (doesn't want to talk about it or is interrupted from something else) or unsure (doesn't want to be wrong). She also said a possible weakness was found in his understanding of social mores and social problem solving skills which may suggest some difficulties in the social realm with peers. He has many friends, is social, is always repectful. He seems to navigate the socal realm better than most 8yo boys I know, standing up for the weaker when necessary, very loyal to his friends. I have been told by some teachers that he is the first one to jump in and help a peer when needed.
He is a little innocent compared to many 8yo boys. I notice some, esp. those w/ older sibs, seem more into the social "pulse" of school.
Who knows? It is so hard making sense of all of this when it doesn't all seem to reflect your child. I am sure somethings are just aspects of him I am not aware of but others I think may be to the oddities of testing.
Do many people find that school testing seems off? Does private testing seem more on target? I know it all depends on the person doing the testing...

I don't see the results of the testing as bad at all. His performance is very strong on 5 subtests (Similarities, Vocab., Block Design, Picture Concepts and Matrix Reasoning) and those are the most reasoning based subtests. So the psychologist's comment about novel problem solving is wrong. And he did not score below the 50%ile in any subtest, so he performed quite well. Full Scale IQ of 125 is excellent, a tad below the official gifted cut off of 130, but well in the superior range (which starts at 120). The way the test is conceptualized, to score in the gifted range, one has to be very good in all aspects of cognition.

As for the achievement testing, I am not familiar with it as I've never been administered a complete achievement battery, (just the fluency subtests of the WJ) so I can't comment on it. (I am actually a young adult with a learning disability but with a few very strong areas in the verbal realm). However, I heard that in high IQ kids like your son, it's common to have achievement scores lower than IQ scores.

What did you mean by this? What is frustrating? What has your experience been?
Thanks so much,
Tammie

hi tammy
sorry about not explaining what i meant about the profile being a frustrating one. This is the crux of it- overall my son has a FSIQ very similar to yours, but his VCI and PCI are very high (with a very high GAI) and his working memory and processsing speed are average to low average. So he's gifted.. but he's not! he doesn't make the gifted cutoffs anywhere and the school seems to be in the dark about GAI.. but he is intensely interested in a lot of subjects.. but overall his performance can really fall short. For example, he is great with math concepts, but does very poorly on anything timed and therefore math tests at school (which are heavily about math facts) can be very frustrating to him. So its just a hard profile for educators to really understand. Also his attention isn't great so there is talk of ADD.. but not officially yet. After reading the Eide's book "The mislabeled child" i feel my son has a lot of pieces of gifted and some pieces of other issues/disorders. So right now i feel he is "twice-exceptional" but not sure exactly what the learnign disability piece is. You might feel all this less because all your DS's scores fall in average range, albeit a big spread. I've seen this "profile" talked about on this forum quite a bit and it does seem like its pretty common and frustrating to a lot of us. Hope this helps.
irene