Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment anyone seen this before?

Alrighty, I'm stuck and need some ideas...

We had such a great meeting with Miss 8's teacher this morning but we all agree that something isn't gelling. J is a curious package - at school, she looks pretty average for an 8 year old but blew everyone away when tested on the WISC-IV. She ceilinged many of the sub-tests, but did poorly on Symbol Search (11) and block design (14). Her processing speed is also low.

She was accelerated this year to year 4 and we saw immediate improvements in her behaviour, focus and level of engagement. The teacher is a real blessing and has closely observed her. She has recommended that J go into a 5-6-7 class next year.

There's no masking involved; she's engaged (mainly due to the teacher) but she's clearly frustrated at her own performance level. "If I'm so smart, why do I get so many things wrong?"

But... the problem seems to be that there's a disconnect between her comprehension, processing and output. She misses key steps in instructions, she skim reads so quickly that she misses critical information, she doesn't check or edit her work, she performs poorly on tests - not because she's not trying, but because there seems to be a hard-wire disconnect happening. She memorising spelling words instantly and holds them until the test, then unilaterally dumps them. At a recent maths test, she couldn't see that an apple and a pear cost $0.85c, how much change will I get from $1.00 - that the answer wasn't 25c. Even thought the teacher told her the answer was wrong, it's like she goes with her gut instinct - spurts out the answer - and then moves on. There's no going back. The answer book must be wrong *sigh*

It's like there's a processing issue, but I don't know what it is, where to look for information, and how to start researching it. Anyone else seen this before? Any articles or resources I might start looking at?

jojo

I may be off-track, but I think I've seen this before - decades ago in myself ;-) She's been underchallenged and disengaged for a while, hasn't she, with the improvement coming just this year at the grade-skip? I would suggest that she has unconsciously developed the habit of skimming over things sort of as a self-defence technique, to protect herself against things that were just too boring, and is now having trouble giving up that technique. I think paradoxically, my impulse would be to give her some seriously challenging work, and see if she can (learn to) do better on that. I bet it'll be easier for her to pay attention to details in the context of a problem that's not boring. Once everyone is satisfied that she can do that, then her inability to do it on easy problems becomes, not unimportant, but at any rate a curiosity rather than an indication of her ability. Hopefully, she'll gradually be able to let go of the technique.

We've just got Descartes' Cove (http://cty.jhu.edu/ctyonline/cove/index.html ) and I think that has the characteristics I'm thinking of: multistage problems involving several arithmetic steps, so that you have to get them all correct to get the right answer, plus immediate, non-judgemental feedback on whether you have the final answer right or not. Just an example...

My DS in 3rd had a issues last year and this year going to fast with his work and missing answers. In Math he would miss doing half of the directions. He has been under challenged in school and I think this is part of the problem. The gifted teacher says he is so confident he wants to zoom ahead. They worked with the 3rd graders this year on specific study habits. They are circling and highlighting information to slow the kids down and pay attention. My son has caught on to this and is doing much better.

Is this a set to learn 6 to 8 math OR is it enrichment? I'm thinking if it's to use for cirriculum he has more depth for gifted in Math. Is this is true?

My DD8 is going through the same thing right now. I'll be busy reading the suggestions . I've been using the read it aloud to me approach for instructions or some harder 6-9 grade problems that the GT teacher has given. We also remind (ie nag) her a lot which I'm sure isn't good but it drives us nuts. I'm sure we did it ourselves as kids also.

If it makes you feel any better, I have heard the same comments from 3 or 4 parents of DD8's friends (most likely GT as well). Maybe it's just the age/stage that we go through when we are finally asked to do something where paying attention is required. our schools don't seem to emphasize this until 3rd grade (ie reading for yourself). So even though I would try at home with various activities last year, it is different when it comes from the teacher in a larger group. At home we can remind them to check work, etc but a teacher with 24 can't go to each individually and remind them. I'm sure that kids probably don't think "group" reminders apply to them.

I'm afraid I don't understand your second sentence, but I'd say it's designed more for revision and enrichment than a thing to use to learn the material the first time. There is a book ("Descartes' notebook") which has some explanation of the topics, but it's quite brief. That said, my DS6 is using it to learn a fair bit of the material for the first time, with help from us on the new material. From the home page you can get to the syllabi it's based on, if that helps. It comes from Johns Hopkins' Centre for Talented Youth, which I think means it's specifically aimed at GT kids. The questions seem to me to be quite challenging relative to the syllabus, i.e. to involve real understanding of it. However, I may not be the best judge since I have no other experience of grade 6-8 maths teaching material, unless you count what I learned from myself.

ColinsMum - sorry for my confusing questions. After rereading, I see that does not make sense.

You did anwswer my question. I was wondering about the purpose of Descarte. It seems like it's intended for enrichment for GT kids.

Thank you for your help.

My son is now in 8th grade. Had similar issues with skimming and not following the directions. Found out he would look at the problem without the directions and proceed with his own answer. He also needed to be challenged at an even higher level.
In 5th grade he could comprehend order of operations. Teacher suggested going online for practice. My son picked college level samples with much more difficult equations. Once he mastered those practice problem he told me the ones at school were too easy...he thought they needed more steps. Apparently he was overcomplicating the process because the 5th grade work was too boring. He is now in 8th Grade, doing similar problems and moving through the work faster than the teacher can give him new assignments. We are looking into switching to a private school that will let him chose the course level of Math he wants to learn instead of having to be bored with something he has known since 5h grade. By the way, the 8th Grade class he is in now is suppose to be an AP Alegbra course.
By the way, back to the original question...does you child have any speech or reading allow issues. In first grade my son was put into Speech for fluency issues. They claimed at the time that his speech was effected by his intellegence being higher than his physical development. He was frustrated that he couldn't communiticate as fast as he could function mentally. Does that sound familar to anyone else?

G&T Mom - It's so insightful hearing of others making the Math into something more than it is. It's comforting knowing others are experiencing this yet make me worry for the impact this will have on Math for my children. I'm thinking Math is a lot about do it this way. I wonder if our gifted teacher sees this complicating Math as creative or just not getting it. I would love to send her a note but I'm afraid it might be perceived the wrong way. I'm just not sure.

My child does not have any reading or speach issues. He just has a fast brain that wants to learn

Chiming in here to say I see the same thing in DS9. He's been accelerated too, and is having trouble slowing down. I was actually thinking of starting a thread about it!

I don't know if harder work is the answer in his case. I'd be grateful for input, though.

His problem is that he doesn't pay attention to details. I wonder if it's a maturity thing. For example, his math teachers agree that he learns concepts very quickly and that he has a very strong understanding of them. The problem is that his computational work is subpar. So, he knows that the decimal point needs to be in x position, but he makes a mistake because he's rushing and his columns skewed to the left or right and a decimal point moves. Alternatively, he'll make a simple mistake in long division when doing a conversion problem. In other subjects, he rushes to finish and so doesn't do as well as he might.

I've tried to give him step-by-step instructions (1. Copy formula. 2. Plug numbers in. 3. Do operations. 4. Check work: are signs correct? Does answer make sense?). This approach worked earlier this year, but I seem to need to repeat it more than I have been!

Overall, I do think it's a maturity problem.

Val