Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy exasperated, aggravated and defeated!

I've been there done that.

The problem is your child enjoys debating and he is practicing with you. He's not an adult. You are. The best solution I found was simple not discussing the issue. You tell him to put his clothes away. He doesn't do it, you don't ask him why or why not, you deal out the consequence. Pretty soon he'll figure out mom is mom and you mean what you say. Everything isn't negociable.

Too late. I'm already nuts!

The thing that works for me is to sit down and have a talk with DS about how I know he is capable of reasoning out what I mean regarding ordinary requests (e.g. wash your hands, put your clothes away.) In the past, I have always meant "with soap, for long enough to be effective," and so on. I have always meant "folded and in the correct dresser drawer." I expect him to think about what makes sense because I don't want to give him a long list of instructions for every ordinary task. I ask him what it would be like for him if he were forced to communicate with me that way.

If he says he would be annoyed or frustrated, I say, "YES! That's how I feel."

First of all, hugs from here, too. Your situation is a familiar one to many of us.

A couple of thoughts I had. I heard a really interesting speaker last week and he said, "80% of all negative interaction we have with our children comes from our own anxiety." As in the, "let's go - we've got to hurry - we're late - why aren't you listening to me?" variety. And the loaded, "How was school today?" conversation - which really means, "Did you do your work? Did you get in trouble? Did you make any friends? Did you listen? etc." I've really thought about it -- and found it to be true in my life. So I'm trying to create a calmer environment here. If I can control my own anxiety, then at least one of us is calm .

A second thought is that Sylvia Rimm writes really effectively about having a "young lawyer" (I believe it's in her book "How to Parent So Children Will Learn"). She says if you have a child who like to argue, an effective way to handle it is to say, "Okay. Tell me all the reasons why you want to wear this bracelet to school today." (or play outside instead of cleaning your room or get to go to a friend's house). Then you let them make their arguments. When they stop talking you say, "Is there anything else?" Once they've finally stopped, you say, "Okay. I have heard your arguments. I will consider it for (half an hour/until dinner/overnight) and get back to you with an answer." Then you refuse to talk about it anymore. She says to even go and lock yourself in your room if they continue to pester you about it. Discussion closed. But you must come back with an answer at the promised time. And an explanation of why you made the decision you did (though no more debate). And every now and then, for the child to think this is effective, you have to say "yes" to their request.

Good luck!

Irisheyes, I really like that method! I'm going to use that! Thanks!

Hi again Bonus Mom -

I am curious. After reading all the advice, feedback and stories, what do you think is the root of the issue?

- EW

Good question!

My heart still thinks it's all my fault. But the posters here are helping me enormously to get over that. Or at least come up with ways to try to make it better.

Otherwise, I think several things are going on at once. There's the growth-spurt issue; and while his 1-1/2" in six months is nothing compared to Belle's son's 2" every month (yikes!), it is the largest spurt he's had in years, and I suppose that must be affecting him more than we realize.

Then there is his, uh, "dichotomy of thinking," I guess I would call it. While no one here has mentioned that yet, it has occurred to me that, on the one hand, he is prone to speaking and acting without thinking, and on the other hand, he tends to overthink and/or think he knows more than he does. (That's another problem - him cutting me off and finishing my sentence. It's unbelievably frustrating, especially when he's completely wrong!) I've been trying to work with him on both of these aspects for a long time, and while I realize it is a very difficult habit to master (I still haven't!), it doesn't seem like it has been this prevalent before.

I also wonder if there isn't some kind of maturation/struggle to establish independence going on, or maybe it just stinks to be the only kid "against" two adults. Maybe he feels like he should have equal authority - which he will never get, of course, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want it.

Or maybe it's executive function. Or maybe it's being bored at school, and at the same time not wanting to be singled out as different. Or maybe it's a guaranteed attention-garnering tactic.

As you can see, I'm all over the map here! And all these things seem equally likely!

Sigh. I am often amazed at how emotionally aware and articulate many of your children are. You ask them how they feel about something, you ask them what they think of something, and - gasp! - they tell you something that makes perfect sense! I just wish I could crawl inside the boy's brain and figure out what really goes on in there....

Oh, I forgot to mention one more possibility - he has been spending more time with other kids since school started, and I think he's picking up on what other kids get away with saying to their parents. I don't know how to explain to him why that kind of talk doesn't fly with us, beyond telling him that "all families are different." It sounds like a lame explanation even to me, but if I tried to dig deep it'd be a half-hour lecture that would probably make things even worse!

Sometimes I have to tell my son that 'even though I can't explain it in words' I am sure I am right, and since I'm the adult, that's going to have to be enough for now. Same thing with, 'I know that my explaination doesn't seem right to you now, but there is a very good chance that when you are older and wiser, you will understand more than you do right now, and you might even agree with me!'

Sylvia Rimm speaks to this beautifully, but apparently that when a child is young and reasonable, it is very tempting to treat them like a 'little adult' and give the explaination all the time. Only trouble is that when they reach their developmentally correct time to become more 'individual,' then they are primed and ready to expect 'equal rights.' I'm certianly guilty of this. Then again, I was such a compliant child, that all it took was a raised eyebrow to have me cowering in the corner. My DS just isn't built that way. He does much better with clear, consistient boundries.

((shrugs)) and more ((shrugs))
Grinity

My favorite lately is the asking over and over and over trying to wear me down approach and then, when I finally cut him off because I know what he's after, he gets angry because I didn't even let him finish what he was going to say .

We've created a monster with the whole 'state your case and I'll listen until you've said everything you wanted to say' tactic because he does try to alter his phrasing or whatever to come at us a different way, only he's asking the same thing. We've had to start cutting him off at the beginning with a 'suggestion' that if he's going to ask a question he's already been given an answer for, he may want to reconsider.

Maybe it's the age or something...

I am also going through similar issues. I was in tears last week. I feel like banging my head against the wall. I would tell DS7 to do something 10 times and he would not do it because he was distracted, or not paying attention etc. Then he would ask me a question. I answered him once, then he would ask the same exact question again as if he did not hear, or he did not like the answer I gave him. I avoided him all last weekend.

Whether it is your kid who is being argumentative, or my kid who is very distracted (or he is just rebellious), I hope this is just a phase they are going through.

I don't have an answer for you. I just want to send hugs. You are not alone!