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I had a teacher conference with Wolf's preschool/K/daycare teacher. He goes there twice a week for three hours a day to have time learning how to work with groups of kids close to his age to supplement being in 1st with a small Independent Study group (no other 1st graders). She said that the things they are working on with him are listening and following direction (no surprise there) and joining in with groups of children to play rather than doing parallel play or asking for an adult to help him join in. He also has trouble dealing with problems in group without the aid of an adult.

Now this FLOORED me... With his Independent Study group (kids aged 6-11, he is just barely 5) he has no problems at all. Same with his friends, aged 6 and 7, or his little brother (other than the MOM He's BREATHING near me!!! issues that siblings have). Even at the playground he just happily joins in.

So I'm thinking that it is just an issue he has dealing with large groups of kids near his age. Any thoughts?

Hi Wyldkat,
I'm sorry that I don't remember if you have any indication fo Wolf's LOG, so adjust the example 'up or down' accordingly. Assuming a child who is HG:

How would you feel if we lived in an alternate universe where each 5 year olds was expected to have the maturity to spend 6 hours a week with all two and 3 year olds in order to prepare them for being a parent someday? Were all the activities and expectations and teacher tones of voice were geared to the two and three year olds? I would think that it was quite bizarre, no matter that everyone else thought it was normal. Perhaps 2 one hour chunks with a few agemates would be a better way to achieve the goal.

I think you should ask Wolf if he likes the preschool, and ask yourself if it helps the family, if the answers to both questions is 'no,' I would get him out of there. I don't think that there is anything wrong with him. Remember that siblings are usually of similar LOG, so that a sibling who is 2 years younger might be closer in ability than an agemate. Also, if Wolf and his younger sib did play peacefully 'in parallel' you would be pleased and celebrate that, not judgmental or worried, right?

Sometimes home day care centers have more of a mixed age group, and some preschools are better about setting up activities that include a wider range of abilities - you could keep looking...

I remember DS13 in daycare complaining that one of the little girls 'refused' to talk to him. When I inquired, it seems that she was a late talker, and didn't talk to anyone. I can picture that this is confusing/scary to a gifted child. We also got the 'monopolizes adult attention' comment quite a bit.

I found this puzzling at the time- as in - and how am I supposed to explain to a two year old that he should be less active in seeking the teacher's attention? But now it makes sense that he would want to talk to the person in the room who had some idea of what he was talking about.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks for the response, Grinity. AS for his LOG we haven't done official testing yet, just grade level assessments that place him 1.5-2+ years above his age grade.

He LOVES going to the school so I am loathe to take him out of it even though the expense is really difficult for us. The age range is potty trained up to 1st grade, so he isn't the youngest one. There are at least 3-4 others that are older than he is. Once a kid is either in 1st or turns six they have to move on. He's still there because they are turning a blind eye to his "official" school grade. The school itself is a science based school. They actually use REAL terminology and teach kids to look things up! I researched every daycare option within reasonable driving distance to find this place. It really is a good school and a good fit for him.

I just find it very weird that he has trouble finding words to join in with groups of kids at school when he doesn't elsewhere. He's my little social butterfly. Perhaps there are personality issues? I don't know, I just don't know what to make of it. He has friends there and hasn't had any behavior problems... Just odd.

Can you go in to observe the actual goings on? The theory of the school sounds great, but sometimes the practice just doesn't live up to it. Take a look at those 3-4 others who are older, that might tell you a lot.

When DS was a little older, he would deal with daycare by finding one other child who was his favorite, and all was well on the days that the favorite was attending and willing to play 'only' with my DS. Other days were just sad days for my DS. I was working and basically felt that there was no other choice at the time.

I think you will know more when you observe.
Best Wishes,
Grinity

I've stayed an watched for a bit, 10-30 minutes at a time, but never longer than that except when I was interviewing the place and I was there for over an hour. (The teacher student interaction was amazing which is why we picked the place). Since Wolf started I never noticed anything out of the ordinary about his interactions, but when I was watching was normally in the middle of a project or playtime and Wolf was already engaged.

Hmmm... You know, he's been going there for a year and until about 2 months ago he was in the afternoon group which is a MUCH smaller group of kids and all his age or older, a max of 5 students including him. We transitioned him to an earlier session so he could have some more time with groups of kids. Now the age range is bigger, there are more teachers and at least a dozen kids, not counting him. I wonder if he's just overwhelmed by it all? I know there is a much different feel during the day than there is during the afternoon. Bear is my socially sensitive one and it never occurred to me that the change might be hard for Wolf. I'll have to talk to him about that.

I'm not sure how much help this is, but I just wanted to tell our related story. In Pk4 (2X) and KG (3 weeks) we heard all the same "concerns" (complaints). DS6 had maturity issues according to the school. This is why he repeated pk4. Boy was that a mistake! That was before we realized he was gifted. He's our only child, so we didn't have much to compare to. We thought all kids were like that!

So, of course, the "behavior" never got any better. He had difficulty paying attention, out of his seat, talking, seeking the teacher's attention, and talking to the teacher incessantly. What we have discovered is that if we put ds6 in a group of his peers, he tries to behave like them. However, his behaviors are exagerated, appearing to be even more immature. In addition, he wants to talk to the teacher b/c he relates more to her than his same age peers.

When we put him in a group (usually a small group) of children a couple of years older (or more) he behaves like they do. In fact, he acts more mature when he's with older kids than when he's alone with me.

I'm still kicking myself for keeping him in a situation that wasn't working and for repeating pk4. How do you gain more maturity by spending 7 hours a day with kids who are actually YOUNGER than you or are intellectually younger you?

My son also funtions much better in a small group rather than a large group. He has overexcitabilities and gets overstimulated in large groups, no matter what the age group is. He's very sensitive, and is just now learning to solve problems independently without melting down. That's just part of who he is. We finally told the school, "This is N******." It's who he is. It doesn't matter how many times he repeats grades, how many cards he pulls in a day, how many time-outs he has, or how strict we are. He is who he is. We have to find the best environment for him; he is not going to conform to the wrong environment. It's just not going to happen. We tried EVERYTHING.

I think you might be on to something with the small vs. large group. Is there any way to change that?

It might be possible to move him back to the afternoon group, but schedule-wise that is actually a bit hard for us right now. I'm see how timing gets sorted out and see about moving him back if we can.

We're only planning to send him there till the end of December. I figure by that time he really won't have much at all in common with them and he'll have formed some good friendships at independent study and his other classes. We really wanted to give him the continuity of staying at this school through the beginning of "official" school and all the changes that involves.