Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Can this be right?

We pushed the school again re acceleration for DS7 (currently in the middle of Grade 1), but the guidance officer wanted to do her own WISC testing first (he did the WPPSI last year at 5 1/2). We agreed, although with some reservations. And we expected it to be a lower result - she's never tested GT kids before, and it transpired that it was done the morning after the night before. But 30 points lower? And not because of peculiar scatters bringing it down, but lower across the board. She showed me some of the questions he got wrong, and they were things I would have been sure he would get correct. I don't want to post the exact questions, but he really does know things that he said he didn't. She re-did some today to see how he'd go with more sleep, and said he seemed bright, happy and trying hard - but results weren't any better.

I don't understand how this can happen, and would appreciate any insights anyone might have. Is it possible to not only have development slow down, but to actually lose capacity?

It seems to have happened with other things too. Eg maths - around last Christmas he could do double digit addition in his head without any trouble - now he says he can't. I've seen plenty of posts about kids having trouble in school because they skip the methodology, but this afternoon it was methodology overload. He wasn't even going to try to answer the question in his head, but was completely focussed on drawing up the columns, complete with labels, and moving a sheet across to block out one while completing the other.

I don't think the WPPSI was wrong - his scores were pretty even across the board, and the tester has done a lot of gifted kids. Family day care and kindy both commented on how very much more advanced he was. But school has been telling us for a while that he's not that outstanding, and now this test result.

He's not really aware of what this is all about - as far as he's concerned he was just doing some puzzles with "you know...that lady". So I don't think he was sabotaging himself. Slightly strangely though he did spin her a number of quite elaborate stories - she asked if our house guests were still with us. Seems he told her (among other things), that his older sister and her children are living with us for a while because their father is away, and that he has to help look after them as the children are only young, and very naughty. These non-existent children have to be watched because they climb out windows, so he needs to make sure the windows are properly locked etc etc.?????

Am I going mad? Is he mad?

ps - thanks for reading this far!

Hi BKD, I have read that testing young can give unpredictable results, however if your feelings on the wppsi are strong, if you've personally seen him handling this more advanced math, etc. I would go more with what you are seeing rather than results that don't jibe with that.
I think the reduction in his 'apparent' ability in school could be the result of 'hiding', which I've read can occur if a child is trying to fit in, but it's not a good thing obviously. Partly because the child can begin to think that these abilities are 'bad', 'odd', etc., and have a pretty poor self image after a while. And yes, this might spill over to what he admits to knowing at home. Further, you might be running into perfectionism, with the very serious, meticulous mapping out of a particular assignment, or, lastly he might be trying his darndest to make it interesting.
I think you can read more about these on hoagies gifted or around this forum, too.
What to do now is probably the big question; are there other school options?
Further testing might need to wait until you sort out what might be going on in your ds' head. We have tried after schooling to bring back my ds love of math, after encountering some issues with that at school, and it can make a difference. Helping a child see themselves as good rather than needing to change can also be helpful.

Very best of luck with this!

We had something similar with the WISC. Dd#2 was tested twice on the WISC-IV a year apart. At the end of 2nd grade, her IQ was in the 99.9th percentile and at the end of 3rd, in the 97th. It may not seem like a huge drop, but it was a 20 pt drop primarily b/c her perceptual reasoning score went from the 99th to the 75th percentile. The first time around, her raw scores on that index were 18s and one around 15 or 14 (not right in front of me). The second time, she didn't have a single raw score over 12 on that index.

According to dd's school, the PR index correlates best with math. I attribute her drop in that area not to an actual drop in ability, but likely due to her having really lost confidence in herself in 3rd grade. Her achievement scores in math were in the 90s in 2nd and had dropped to the 50s and 60s in 3rd as well and her teacher kept telling us that math was not something she was good at. Her prior year's teacher felt that she was very good at math and so she was that year.

Anxiety, self-doubt, and people who don't believe in her make a huge difference for our dd in terms of how she tests. Unfortunately for her, acceleration decisions re math were made in 3rd grade, so she will never qualify for math acceleration based on those lower 3rd grade scores. As long as she remains in this district, she will never be able to accelerate in math. Fortunately, she will be changing districts in middle school. Our hope is that, if she can start performing in math again, we can revisit her math placement with the new district in 6th grade (she's a 4th grader now).

looks like he has figured out how to act the way 'school people' like you to act. This is an important skill, but so dangerous!


How many of our kids tell their parents that they are too young to read? Sounds familiar. The school had my son convinsed that he 'can't focus' in 2nd grade. Our kids spend many, many hours a day in school.


Can you call your original tester to help you think through this?



Do the 'naughty children' represent the parts of himself that he has to lock up during the school day? Is his mind 'crawling out the window?' Ok, that's dramatic, but just wondering...

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Grinity - I had the same thoughts about that story!!!!! Perhaps it's metaphorical!

I would definitely try to contact the previous tester and run those scores by him/her and see what he/she thinks of them.

Trust your gut.

Hi all, and thanks so much for your comments. I think we will have to talk to the original tester again - I'm feeling at a loss with this. And our local association has a parent support meeting next week, so I'll try to gather some thoughts from that too.

Cricket - that's awful. I can't fathom why people who work with such young children would take such a limiting approach instead of always looking for opportunities to encourage them. They're such amazing little people - the whole wold of knowledge should be offered up to them.

I'm dwelling more on that story too - and it was only one of a few. He must have been convincing, because she believed them all - said he spoke very matter-of-factly about how we were burgled in the night and the police came. DS7 has never been a story-teller. Tbe manner she described reminded me a little of his very calm manner on the weekend, when he informed me that he'd written an obscene word on the side of the sofa. Also out of character.

Do you think "use it or lose it" could really happen? The boys' school has academic results significantly below the state average, and is the school that more ambitious parents in the area avoid. There are things about it that we really like, but I'm getting a bad feeling that my reasonably strong views re equity of opportunity and ickiness of competitive schooling might not be in the best interests of my children. Particularly a boy as people-focussed as DS7.

LOL! - me too - I get more deranged the more I have to interact. I'm sure no-one believes that I can be quite rational when I'm left alone.

So there I am not so long ago - sitting on the verandah watching the possums come out, looking at the stars, trying to hide from the children, and nursing my glass of wine (I don't usually nurse wine, but sometimes life requires it). DS7 comes out in his towel apres bath to find me. A bit of idle chatter goes on and then "J" says I nonchalantly - "what does an X do?". "Makes Y and Z" says my boy, laughing. I, of course, have asked this question because, during the assessment session causing me so much angst, he has said that he doesn't know what Y and Z have in common. "Why are you laughing?" says I. "Dunno" says he. I don't pursue this further, but do feel suddenly compelled to do a rather desperately presented experiment involving a paperclip, magnet and the earth to demonstrate that the teacher's advice (so he tells me) that gravity and magnetism are "the same" is not entirely right.

I have done some googling this afternoon, and have discovered that I could send them to a reasonable boarding school for around $17,000 a year (each, sadly). In this scenario, I have moved to a very clean, tidy inner city apartment - the sale of my house having funded the aforementioned boarding school. My life is calm, and I feel very peaceful. I occasionally let the boys come home for the weekend.

I have informed The Father that he is in charge of bedtime tonight. Back to the verandah for me, and peaceful wishes to all.

BKD - that word picture was excellent. I hope you enjoyed the quiet.
-cc

Thanks! - I did for a while. But then suffered this morning for having lived in the fast lane with my three glasses of wine. Chamomile tea and soothing music would probably have been a better choice.

No, not at all. There's usually some degree of comfort in knowing that you're not alone in facing a problem. I don't think I would really ever send them to boarding school, but I do like to indulge in fantasies of peace every now and then.

Do you think the decision was best for you, in retrospect? Or that it had merits you weren't aware of at the time?

Re: use it or lose it.

I don't think you can really lose it, but it can certainly become rusty . I was in a not very challenging school. I chose a challenging track in high school within the limited options available in my home country. Those 2 lasst years of high school, I began to stretch my mind again, challenging teachers instead of just daydreaming in class, etc. For university, I had to make my brain work again. It was a nice feeling, and it just got some adjustement that I needed to actually study. That happened to a lot of my peers, there were a few lucky ones who had been challenged before hand, they were ready to go. Some never got used to having to work to keep up, and ended up dropping out.

In short, I think it is important to keep your DC mind's actives. If the school continues to refuse accommodations, then he has to work at home, be learning new things.