Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WASI vs WISC

My ds8 took the WASI as the second round of testing for the GT pullout program in our district. I'm not able to see the full results until school starts next month. He was denied entrance into the program, so I called the director who told me he scored 126 and that the minimum is 131.

Background: His second grade teacher had him teaching vocabulary to the class and he was ten chapters or more ahead of the overwhelming majority of his classmates in the districts math program and was the only child in his class who completed it. She also discussed the GT program with me several times and stated that she felt ds would have no problem qualifying. During kindergarten and first grade, he was very bored in class and until he was lucky enough to get a teacher who realized his potential and gave him extra work, he was constantly being sent home with behavioral issue notes. These notes said that he talked through class, did not raise his hand before answering, and that he colored outside of the lines. He never once received any type of disciplinary notes in second grade and he was so much happier in an environment where the teacher let him move ahead. I know that she is a once-in-a-lifetime type of teacher, and I'm so worried that without the GT program he will go back to being considered the disruptive kid in class. He taught himself multiplication in kindergarten without prompting and could read chapter books before ever going to school, so I know that he is intelligent.

My son is a very sensitive child and spoke about how worried he was every day of the two months we waited for his score. He was extremely upset when we found out the he had not qualified, though I had discussed with him that either outcome was just fine. It breaks my heart to see him so upset. The director of the program said that if I felt the test score was not accurate, that the WISC can be given next week. I said yes, but now I'm having second thoughts. Is it worth the stress my child feels while waiting for the result, especially if the result is the same?

While searching for information, I have seen that children often score lower on the WISC than they did on the WASI. There are no other options for testing in our district. If the WISC score is just going to come out lower, then I would prefer not to put him through the stress of testing. Have any of your children taken both the WASI and the WISC? What was the outcome? Any advise?

Is there anyone who has had experience with both the WASI and the WISC?

Another thing, I looked up the name of the first round test that he passed to qualify for the WASI, and it was called SAGES2.

Is the person that would administer the WISCIV experienced w/ testing gifted kids? That is very important from what I've read here. Some kids automatically say "I don't know" b/c they don't want to be wrong. Someone who doesn't get that will just move on and mark it wrong. I heard DS give the tester a one word answer. The tester would say in a very monotone voice, "Can you tell me more?" and DS would rattle off a long answer. Also the tester had said he would get to know DS first, let DS play w LEGOs for 15min or so to warm up etc but he didn't. They sat down and just started. WEll, that subtest, the block design, DS got easy ones wrong but got all the hard ones right. I think DS was quite nervous. Also, the tester said DS fatigued quickly and he would have scored higher if had split up the test into 2 days. DS had had soccer practice right before the test and the psych said that wasn't good but DH refused to let DS miss practice for some test lol.

I am a young adult who doesn't have any children and so can't answer your question directly about my personal experience with score difference between WASI and WISC. However, I know about the WASI and WISC. As you probably know, WASI is an abbreviated version of WISC and contains only four subtests: Vocabulary, Similarities, Matrix Reasoning and Block Design. WISC contains these four subtests plus an additional six. It is just my guess that the four subtests of the WASI are the ones the gifted do the highest on from the entire WISC since they are primarily the reasoning ones.

However, there is a possibility that your son would get a higher score on the complete WISC as opposed to WASI. Perhaps he is the kid with a stronger Working Memory and Processing Speed, which is not usually the norm for most, but you never know. Another reason the WISC might score higher than the WASI is perhaps they make the 4 subtests of the WASI harder than these same 4 subtests on the WISC in order to compensate for the limited scope and the reasoning bend of the shortened version. Finally, (and I might be giving you false information on this so you have to check) it may be that there is only one version of the WASI which is given to both children and adults, meaning the same WASI is given to both children and adults. Although in that case the scoring would be age adjusted, but the items themselves would be harder since they are meant for adults. WISC, on the other hand, is specifically designed for children so it may be easier.

So, I told you all I know. I know personal experience would be more telling, but I hope I was helpful. And hope you can plod through my rambling.

OH interesting! I didn't know anything about the WASI! So I wonder how the WASI would equate with the GAI of the WISCIV? Two subtests are still missing when using the WASI vs the GAI of the WISCIV correct? Comprehension seems to be missing (VCI) and Picture Concepts (PRI).

Yes I know someone w/ similar scores to my son on VCI and PRI but he blew the PSI out of the water whereas my son was slightly above avg....significant impact on FSIQ on WISCIV.

I appreciate all of your responses. I'm new to all of this, so I need to take some time to research all of the acronyms and different testing types and scales. You all have given me some tools for further thought.

Has anyone heard of the SAGES2 that was given to ds before he took the WASI? I haven't seen anything about it, and I have not been given access to his score. The only thing I was told was that my son scored high enough to move to the next round and that it was a very difficult test.

As for the question regarding the experience of the tester, I don't know for certain. I do know that the counselors at the individual elementary schools in our district are the people who administer the WASI and that the district representative who I spoke to said that they would use a district psychologist to administer the WISC. He sounded as though this is what they do to appease parents who question the score of the WASI, but that he did not feel that it was going to make a difference. He was very placating during our conversation, but made sure to keep telling me that just because ds is bright doesn't mean he would or should qualify for the gifted program. I am quite unhappy with the way things are going, but he is the director of the STRETCH program here, so there is no one to escalate to. I am also aware that ds may indeed not end up qualifying, but I can't help but fight for this due to the experiences we have had so far. There are also some outside factors that I feel could be being considered by the tester in her interpretation of his answers. I live in the Midwest, and we don't fit what is considered the norm for families here and have actually been treated pretty poorly by district employees who do not agree with our family composition, including his first two teachers and the first principal he had. It's just so difficult to sort through all of these factors.

I appreciate your patience in assisting me, especially since we may really not end up qualifying for this type of forum when this is all said and done, anyway. Thank you all for your help. I'm really hoping for the best!

Even if the 126 is accurate, that is still the 96th percentile (at least on the WISC; I assume that it would be the same for the WASI). That is still a very bright child and he would qualify for gifted services in many districts with that score as there just aren't enough kids in the 98th percentile and up to reach critical mass. Please don't feel that you need to go away should your son not reach that magical number of 130.

The other thing -- 131 is a bizarre cut-off if the mean and std deviation of the WASI is the same as the WISC. With a mean of 100 and a SD of 15, 130 is the 98th percentile. 131 is also the 98th percentile. I don't know why that one point would make a difference in qualification if the percentile is identical btwn the two.

FWIW, I'm less confident that we can pin-point exactly where someone falls than I was in the past. I do believe that IQ scores can give you a good idea of an approximation, but like all other tests they are a snapshot of one day's performance. A child who scores around 100 is unlikely to be gifted unless something else is going on, but a child who scores 126 may be. The number is close enough that I'd give him the benefit of the doubt myself.

I believe that the SAGES is a screening test that looks at achievement as well as ability, but I don't know much about it either.

Dottie, if you don't mind a quick side question: you mention scatter among the raw scores as a question in your response above. Does it mean something if there is significant scatter? Both of my girls, when tested on the WISC, had raw scores ranging 8 to 19 -- sometimes even within the same test (PRI for dd#1 had one score of 19+1 - couldn't be used for extended scoring at the time b/c it was quite a few years ago, but she scored higher than necessary to get the 19 - and one of 8).

Thanks for all of the additional information.

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to see the detailed results until school starts. The only info that I have is that the score was 126. I would imagine that he scored quite well in any part involving mathematical concepts, though. I wish that I could see the detailed results before making the decision to go ahead with the WISC.

I also question the qualifications of the counselors as WASI testers, but there's not much I can do about it at this point. The district psychologist is who is supposed to administer the WISC, and I imagine that he/she only does so very occasionally since it is only given by the district when a parent challenges the result of the WASI.

Would I call his health care insurance provider to find out about getting independent testing? Since the testing is done by a psychologist, would it be covered by insurance? We don't have the means to pay very much for testing, but I would love to be able to have an independent test done by someone actually trained to do this as a frequent part of his/her job.

Thanks again for all of your assistance!

NotSure -- private testing costs really vary depending on your location, so you might want to look around and see what going rates are near you. I know several ladies on the board have found testing in their areas to run $1500-$2000, but we're in the Midwest and I paid $500 for full IQ testing, achievement testing and detailed write-up from a fairly well-known GT researcher/test administrator. Of course, $500 may be a lot or a little depending on area, family circumstances, etc ... but it's much less than the $2K I was fearing!