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Hi everyone,

I just joined the forum here after checking out hoagies website. My ds who soon will be 7 hasn't officially been tested, since the school district doesn't test until the end of 2nd grade. This is very frustrating for me who likes things to be organized (perhaps I'm a bit of a perfectionist too) and of course I'm a protective mom who wants my son to have an education that stimulates him. Anyway the principal said at the beginning of this school year (1st grade)that we will revisit the testing idea when the gifted teacher does it normally in Feb.

After a meeting at the start of school it was decided that my son would go to 2nd grade for the 90 min. lang. arts block, would work with the gifted teacher at the pullout session which only 2nd graders get (this is only once a month), and would get extra time to work on the math/reading program which is on the computer.
One roadblock has been since the second grade teacher left and we had to wait for the new teacher to get used to the school the lang. arts didn't start until a month after school began.

So the gifted pull out session (which is just once a month)was fine I thought until the teacher said she didn't see my son really enjoying it afer the second month. I guess he was concerned about when it was time to go or something. Anyway he said he was enjoying it and to me he seemed enthusiastic about it. She said that they really needed to have a 1st grade enrichment program and that she was going to talk to the principal to get names of students who would benefit. So this idea has been kicked around now with the curric. devel. head and principal or so I've been told. A month has gone by with no real visual progress. Oh how the ed. system moves slowly...at least in my district. There isn't a gifted ed. mandate in Delaware so I guess I should be thankful that they have anything really.

Well I guess I'll close for now. I'd like to hear from anyone here, who may have advice or just to share similar experiences. There isn't a support group in my school for this and so it would help to talk and share ideas.

Thanks in advance

Wow Moni,
The school is showing wonderful flexibility with the language arts block, every day! Is your son happy with school? That's a huge indicatior. I would try to act calm and confident about the monthly pullout, but whenever they ask your opinion, say that you really think early testing is nessesary to get an idea of what is going on.

To bad about the 2nd grade teacher leaving. I hope the new teacher works out.
Best Wishes,
Trinity

Thanks for your replies. Trinity it felt good to hear you say that about my school being flexible with the lang. arts block. I guess I tend to focus on what they aren't doing so thanks for pointing that out.

The second grade teacher is working out well. He is enjoying going there and the kids ask for him if he isn't there.

It just gets me thinking what if he was in the second grade for every subject....I got the feeling that my principal wasn't for the grade skipping so I was happy my son got the lang. arts acceleration.

Thanks for the Welcome Dottie. *wave* I thought PA was a bit more advanced on the gifted front? Don't they require the gifted IEP?

Thanks again for your responses.

Hi Moni,
well yes, it get's me thinking that too! Since the school is offereing testing, perhaps it's worth waiting for the test and saving yourself the money of a private tester. ((I'm a strict-ish Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual girl, and if they say individualized testing is needed to reccomend a grade skip, then I would surely try to get that individualized IQ/Achievement test score. Have you read this book? I really liked it.))

Of course this begs the question of "exactly what kind of testing is done at the end of second grade?" if it's a group test, then don't waste your energy waiting or pushing for it. It's time to raid the piggy-bank and get some testing. Have you looked at Ruf's Estimated Levels to get an idea of where on the rainbow of giftedness your son sits? If it's level III or higher, AND you are paying your own money, then do be sure to get one of the precious few tester who really understand unusually gifted kids.

(((( Pssssss, Dottie, have you ever considered going back to school to get certified as an IQ tester? Wouldn't that be fun? ))))

anyway, smiles - best wishes, holiday cheer,
Trinity

Dottie- Thank you for explaining the PA mandate. It was quite an eye opener.

Trinity- I've heard of the Iowa Accel. Scale Manual, but haven't read it. I'm sure I'd find it extremely helpful. Do you think a school district would own this?
I'm sorry to say that the test done at the end of second grade is a group one. What is your opinion of the group test? Have you had experience with it? I have read a little about it, but I'm new to the whole IQ testing situation. Should I then request that my school do an individual one?
Thanks for letting me know about Ruf's Est. Levels...I read through it online a bit and think his level is a III. I really don't have the money for private testing and don't even know if it would make a difference with the school district. I'll have to inquire at the school first before making a move.
My head has been swimming ever since Kindergarten last year when they tested his reading ability and found him at the middle school level.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and advice with me.

I'm not Dottie or Trinity, but I can answer a couple of these...

I know our local school district owns the IAS, and as I had it explained to me by the local school's gifted coordinator at a meeting about acceleration just today...the IAS is pretty much the accepted form to use to decide about acceleration. (Which is nice because it's actually a good manual!) I'd bet that if your school system is a decent size, it probably has it. If not, it would be worth asking for.

Group tests are pretty much never as good as individual tests, for all the obvious reasons. They're certainly better than nothing, and if that's what the school uses--as ours does--then that's what you get. But if you have any say in the matter or if you're paying for it, you'd certainly prefer an individual test. But it really depends upon why you're getting the test. Is it just to be ID'd for the school's gifted programs? Then their standard test--group test or otherwise--is probably fine. But if there's a specific question you want to answer about your son, then that changes things. You may need a different test. It's all about your purpose. Testing just for the sake of testing isn't generally very useful, imho.

And by the way, your son is reading--what?--7 years above grade level?! Are you sure he's not a level 4 or 5? That's really a lot to be "just" a 3, I think. (And yes, I realize how ludicrous that sentence is!)

You might want to take another look at Ruf's levels with your son's baby book in hand. I figured my son was a 3...until I actually had the baby book with me when I looked at the timeline. Nuh-uh. He's certainly a 4, moving into 5 territory in the subjects that most interest him.

It doesn't make a huge difference at that level, but it might affect your educational placement somewhat. Of course, I may be wrong--you're the mom! But I'd urge you to look again, just to be sure.

All the best to you on this fascinating, frustrating journey we're all taking together!

I just had to check my copy of "Genius Denied" because I remembered that the Davidsons were impressed with a charter school in Delaware. It's actually called The Charter School of Wilmington. Are you near there? I think it's a high school, but sometimes charter schools expand or maybe there are "feeder" schools for it. I have heard there was some contraversy because it wasn't Equal Opportunity or something like that, but I remembered how it was considered stellar by DITD.

I would suggest testing as soon as possible (have you considered private testing to expedite things?--if it's affordable). I personally don't like the idea of group tests, but Dottie would be better to comment. If the gifted program doesn't meet DS's needs, then consider Iowa Accel (like Trinity suggested)--I cringe at the idea of a middle school level reader in a "normal" 1st grade class. Mid year grade skips or class changes have worked very well with my DS who's a 2nd grader, age 6. If that's desirable--maybe ask to move ahead "on faith" with all of the testing and IEP stuff to formalize afterwards since the semester closes soon. The principal of our school earned my undying respect when he allowed this for us (we had the testing but I knew the IEP would take a while).

Thanks Kriston for your input. The testing would be just for identification into the gifted program. In our district there is a pullout for 2nd graders once a month. There is also an "Alpha" program which starts in 3rd grade where the kids who are identified throughout all elementary schools in the district go into an all day class. Kind of reminds me of the Malcolm in the Middle class. This is what the principal told me that my son would of course qualify for. I really want to observe this class though and see what it's like before deciding to put him there.
Can you believe I never kept a baby book? I breastfed him and didn't have any time between keeping house and running after him to write much down. Perhaps I have some of it on video though.
Cym- yes I have a copy of Genius Denied and read about the Wilmington Charter School. I checked their website and am already picturing my DS6 there. Unfortunately there isn't a feeder school that I know of. We aren't very close either to that HS. Although I would definetely think about travelling there when the time comes...or move. It is up in the north where most of the gifted programs start earlier.
It's interesting that your daughter had a mid year grade skip. I'm thinking about asking about it at a school meeting I want to set up with the principal and teachers. My son this past week has been complaining about not wanting to go to school. He is saying he is sick still (he is getting over a cold) and has a tummy ache. When asking what was really bothering him he said that the 2nd grade lang. arts was too long. So I gave him a note to ask the teacher what her take on it is. Could he be bored? Please share any info. and advice on your mid year grade skip please. I don't want to totally disrupt my son's routine since he really needs it, but I'm thinking would it be better to have him just go to the one teacher all the time? He has been doing this routine for a month now so perhaps he needs more time?

Dottie- Wow the last cheap test...lucky you. I think the reading test he took was the DIBEL but not sure. He had to read passages where they timed him and there were questions to answer. The reading specialist had to go to the middle school to get the higher test since he went past the fourth grade one. I think she went up to 6th grade since that was as high as it could go. After that test I was really amazed. I knew he read fast and understood what he read, but wow.
Tell me about the sibling clause please. Sorry all for not writing back sooner. I was hoping to stop worrying for awhile until after the new year, but now I'm back in it with my son not happy. Any new advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Moni -
You can get IASManual for about 20$ from Amazon, if it's in stock. I've found it to be a very good reference.
6 weeks is the "accepted" time suggested for settling in.
This whining and complaining is too bad, and I'm sorry to hear that he's feeling out of sorts. It is very tough to figure out. I would suggest a note to the teacher asking for a quick meeting to see how things are going. Don't predujice the wittness, ok? Best is for you to observe yourself, on a pretext if possible, as getting a good read on what is going on can be very tough. And sometimes a belly ache is just a belly ache. The tough part for me is to not get all emotional, which then triggers DS11 to get all emotional, which triggers me....you get the picture, and this is very normal for GT kids.

Since your school is only going to offer a group test, and you aren't really sure what is going on with him, or how to accomidate a kid like him, I strongly reccomend getting testing for him and any older siblings by a professional who is familiar with HG/PG kids, if you can afford it. If you child is level II, waiting for what the school provides is fine. If your child is level III or higher, you want to incorporate what the school provides and modify it as needed. The best testers are good at helping suggest what might be the "as needed" part.

If you aren't to far from KY I've heard good things about:

Edward R. Amend, Psy.D.
Amend Psychological Services, PSC
1025 Dove Run Road
Suite 304
Lexington, KY 40502

Tel: (859) 269-6465

Fax: (859) 269-6401
info@amendpsych.com

Wow, I just talked to the receptionist and she said aproximatly a 4 week wait!
I never saw this FAQ webpage either, but it looks promising -
http://www.amendpsych.com/faqs.htm

Best Wishes,
Trinity

I just had an IEP meeting for DS6 and was told they're requiring DIBELS testing every 2 wks (negotiated down from weekly!). My son loves testing but the teacher is absolutely overwhelmed with this new laborious requirement. It's for all kids K-2 and I asked that the 2nd graders (my son) be excluded from it for the rest of the year, since he's reading at 5th grade level and maxed the test initially. They're thinking about it...(bureaucrats!).

The teacher apologized for not really doing much acceleration for the 2nd graders so far this year. I was surprised, but then she spent the next hr telling me about one kindergartner in the class (k-2) who reads college texts, retains the info, but doesn't know the building blocks of reading (letters, phonics)--he just started reading at 2! I thought this was so interesting. My DH says "savant". Another child is being evaluated by social worker & psych & diagnostician because she's very "difficult", though I wasn't able to understand specifics, just that she lives in a 'fantasy world' and won't stop talking. Out of a class of 8 for EG/PG, isn't that interesting? One other kid qualified for the program but the admin won't place him because he is "socially unfit" (don't know what that means exactly). Is there a correlation with high IQ and psych issues?