Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Nagleri to involuntarily exit 5th-grader from GT

My daughter (now 11) has been identified GT since kindergarten in a Houston-area public school district. The district is trying to involuntarily remove her GT identification for 6th grade in math and science based on a Naglieri Nonverbal score of 122. I do not know why they gave the Naglieri for the reassessment; I had asked them to give a WISC or a Slosson test. Does anyone have any insight on how I could argue that the Naglieri was not the appropriate test to give her? This is an extrememly verbal child who speaks only English who is not economically disadvantaged or anything like that, so I am not sure why they gave the Naglieri unless it was just because it can be administered quickly and does not require a psychologist to give it?

Would they accept an outside assessment? Do you have any other test scores or achievement scores available to prove your point?

Our district uses the Naglieri for ID of GT kids. And that is the only tool they use. 122 on the NNAT is still a quite respectable score, 100 being the mean. The NNAT is cheap and easy to administer to large groups of kids, and that is why many districts use it. It can easily identify ELL as gifted. However, you aren't at a disadvantage taking it as a English speaker or as a not disadvantaged student. It measures some very finite skills and there are many reasons a child may not do well on a test like this in a group setting. But knowing many, many peoples NNAT scores, I tend to think those from higher income families still average better.

It also depends on what the GT program would consist of. I think our district is over ID-ing kids with the NNAT in some cases and missing kids in other cases. But the only real gifted magnet school they have is highly tailored to be great for visual-spatial kids. Some less v-s kids end up finding it not a good fit at some point, even though it is very much a school for the moderately gifted. You may want to look at the programming and make sure it's worth the battle. A GT math-science program COULD be very particular to more v-s gifted kids. There might be very mathy kids that wouldn't be a good fit in the English G-T programming. It just depends on the programming and the child. And whether or not you think that NNAT score accurately reflects your daughter's math/science abilities in particular, even though her verbal abilities are very high.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply; this is helpful.

They do not accept outside testing.

She got a 126 on the NNAT in kindergarten, which is one of the reasons she was placed in GT.

She is basically a gifted underacheiver; she makes grades just high enough not to cause undue alarm, but she is performing well below her abilities and potential. This is a large suburban school district but our elementary school has only 400 students, so for years she was the ONLY GT student in her grade. Elementary has a once-a-week pullout program for GT, which she liked for a while but began to rebel against in 4th grade. She hated being singled out and has now decided she does not want to be "smart" anymore.

Junior high (6th grade, next year) is a much larger school, and they do ability grouping, so the GT kids are clustered with Pre-AP kids in one section of each subject. I think she will do much better in a while class of smart kids rather than being bored 4 days a week and socially isolated 1 day a week.

Edit: I feel like the district is making a special effort to take this GT label away from her, when she has not even had a chance to experience the secondary-level GT program, which is very different from the elementary pull-out program.

I think it's weird they re-test with the NNAT and then can take the GT label away from the child!? That seems really wrong to me. Our (former) school (we now homeschool) tests once in kindergarten, once in 2nd grade (as another chance). You can request the test at other grade levels if you want. But once you are tagged GT, they cannot remove the tag from you. Some kids also get in by almost having close enough NNAT scores and teacher recommendation/work portfolio. And they may accept outside test scores in some circumstances.

You have my sympathies! That makes no sense. Could you talk them into a trial period? I actually got into honors English in high school this way (had 1 bad test score - my parents talked my Dean into letting me in), and I generally got A's through the whole 4 years without much struggle. (Although, I probably do tend towards more visual-spatial) Good luck!

She got a 122 on the OLSAT as well, in October, in a test given in a group setting during a week where she was extremely tired and distracted and lacking in sleep. On the same day she got a 95 in total mathematics (they require a 96 for GT).

They then gave her a Metropolitan Achievement Test. Her Problem-Solving score was 92, but her Procedures score was 56. This tells me that she has an innate ability but is underachieving due to bad attitude about school and a truly dismal math teacher for the last 2 years.

My understanding is that underacheiving gifted kids should not be pulled out of GT services because expecting LESS of the child is exactly the wrong thing to do.

This is not a child who is trying hard and not making it. This is a kid who very occasionally lifts a little finger, who basically does not try much at all, and gets low As and high Bs.

She can sign up for Pre-AP placement and get it, and she might get in the section where the GT students are clustered (or she may not) but she will be on the "Pre-AP" side of the teacher's roster rather than the GT side of the roster. The curriculum is basically the same for GT and Pre-AP in junior high.

So why am I wanting to fight this? I just feel like my kid is quirky and hard to deal with, and having the GT label helps teachers "get" her and know how to deal with her and get the most out of her.

I know she needs help in math; we will probably do Kumon or some other tutoring/enrichment this summer, because she is missing some skills.

What are some of the reasons a child might not do well on the NNAT?

Is it common to try to take away the GT label and services between elementary and secondary school?

I thought GT was GT - why all of the sudden do they separate it into 4 subjects and say that all of the sudden she is not gifted any more in 2 out of 4 subjects?

You may have answered your own question above. As a former GT underacheiver (sort of I got very high grades but hardly ever extended myself beyond requirements), I think it would require some sort of motivation to actually pay attention to the test. If she has made statements that she doesn't want to be "smart" anymore, where is her motivation? Trust me, it can be subtle. I always got what I needed on tests and nothing more and seldom followed advice even to get enough sleep prior to college testing....I finally did really well on math/logic tests in high school/college. I mean really, I remember taking all those standardized tests and wondering why, it was sooooo boring reading uninteresting paragraphs or looking at shapes-I had a hard time making myself answer and would always find more than one answer on the interpretive reading comprehension since apparently my opinion was different from the test maker.... The Maps was always my favorite on ITBS .....There are so many reasons.

PM me if you want, I'm in the same general area if you want to commiserate. I have my own beefs with our district. I did read the texas code and the districts are required to have an appeals process I believe and if you get independent testing, while they may not be required to accept it, it would certainly be good appeal data. Good Luck

My now identified gifted and possibly HG child took the NNAT multiple times in elementary school for the gifted program, and never surfaced above 130. She has difficulties with Spatial/Visual type things, but is highly gifted at Quantitative and Verbal type stuff. Plus, she had a few bad test days. For this reason, (that their are multiple types of gifted, and that the what the NNAT does not measure might even be more important for GT success), then I don't think it is fair that they are using that test to pull her out. Maybe you can pursue above level testing, such as the explore or SAT? Thats what really helped me and my daughter with our situation.

Just an update on my daughter's situation. I appealed the denial of GT services for math and science for 6th grade, and got denied at the campus level. At the district level, they reversed on math, so now she is classified GT for math, language arts and social studies (but not science). Go figure.

We are doing Kumon this summer to make sure she has a good foundation to start GT math courses in 6th grade in the fall. She has a colossally bad attitude about math right now; I think her abilities and intelligence are high but she is underachieving at the moment.