Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Extended Scoring for WISC IV....did you know?

by the way, I meant to be more clear, and say the it is not required to be over the 130 in both Verbal and Performance Subscales. Certainly one who is over 130 in both is considered Gifted.

Dottie,
I do think that it's good to look at having the test that screens for the gifted program actually match the individual gifted programing.

I wonder how often a child would come up with score that are so unusually skewed.

Also, I'm all in favor of there being a process of thoughful people who look at the whole picture and think well about the child, but I guess I'm a bit hopeless that that well ever happen widely.

In my ideal world, there will be a wide variety of 'gifted options' from the 2 hour/week pull out, to subject and grade skipping, to self contained classrooms for HG, self contained classrooms for PG, self contained classrooms for 2E, cyber ed in school or at home, independent study, mentorship. Because each child IS individual, and has individual needs and circumstances, that change over time.

I just would hate to see a kid with a 129 Full scale, but VIQ or PIQ well into the 130s or 140s gatekepted out of a gifted program that might do them a world of good. ((For the record, I also worry about the gifted program being so watered down that it serves fewer and fewer kids at the higher end.))

I agree that your example is a strong case for the 'VIQ OR PIQ' plan being open to mistakes, but my point is that if I understand the lecturer corectly, this is what the publisher of the test has decided is the way to interpret their test. They get to make the rules, and I think that a lot of Gifted 2E kids would benifit if the rules are widely known. KWIM?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Ah, Grinity, I wish you ruled the world.

I was nodding throughout your entire last post!

I have read that verbal scores have the highest "g" factor and are the best indicators of a child's chances of academic achievement. It could be I focused on that because it is my dd's strength but hey who knows!

In "Re-forming Gifted Education," the author talks about the mis-match between tests used and the gifted program. My friend and I have discussed this often. Our kids have similar IQs but the VCI and PRI are flip-flopped. My son is Higher in VCI and her DD is higher in PRI. They need very different programs. Now this could be differences in personality. I can't draw any conclusions from n-2.

Most schools use non-verbal tests for their gifted program selection but the program is often highly verbal in nature. But highly verbal kids can miss the cut-off on these non-verbal tests. I know of 4 kids who scored 90s% on CoGAT but then 145+ on FSIQ w/ WISCIV. They wouldn't have qualified for gifted programming based on CoGAT scores.

I wonder if VCI best fits academic achievement in a school setting but a child with an equal PRI would do just as well in the appropriate environment.

I have a friend whose district has a 4-tiered system. I know St. Louis is moving to a similar 3-tiered system. The lowest level is in class differentiation. the next tier is pull-out for enrichment. the 3rd tier is a gifted cluster. The 4th tier is a gifted magnet school.

And a lot of it comes down to exposure to material as well. A kid of mathy parents will get a lot more than one of just playwrights.

Possible future WPPSI extended norms question:

Do you experts think that anything from a 17 to a 19 will be considered ceilings on the subtests for the WPPSI, for when the extended norms are available?

I emailed Pearson and asked when these extended norms are coming, I will post if I get any kind of concrete reply!

This is an old thread, but I can't help resurrecting it to say "hear, hear!"

My daughter is in exactly this situation. Big spread in scores, FSIQ just below the cutoff, GAI and VCI well into gifted territory, but zero accommodation because of the FSIQ.

It's very frustrating. I wish the publisher were more clear about the need (not the option) to use GAI when there is a big discrepancy--if indeed this is what they intend. In states that provide funding only for X number of gifted, there is a disincentive to properly identify all gifted. So the FSIQ, as long as it remains optional and not officially verboten in these instances, remains king.

I think my son's disability, motor dyspraxia and hypotonia, would cause a big discrepancy between his verbal scores and performance scores, so he would have a lower FSIQ than his highly gifted half brother even though they seem so much alike intellectually. It always seemed to me that if a child has a disability and is able to learn and comprehend at very high levels in spite of the disability he should be considered to have a higher IQ, certainly not less, than the child who was able to learn and achieve at the same high level but didn't have to deal with the disability. I don't think my son's motor learning disability affects his intellectual ability in any negative way. I think he understands things that a lot of adults don't because of his disability, yet his FSIQ would probably be less than that of a child with a similar mental age and intellectual ability because of his disability.

I try not to think too much about all of this. I am trying to keep my blood pressure down and focus on things that really matter and focus on the positive. My son is homeschooling and is able to learn more on his own than he would in our public school so we don't have to worry about it.

My son was tested in our school district. He had a PIAT-R test and had to score 98% or above. He did so then they tested him with the WISC-IV. Overall he had a 121 FSIQ, but in our district he made the gifted program, because he had to have a 130 or above on ONE of the tests. He had a 130 on VCI only. I was told his FSIQ was brought way down due to problem with processing speed (he has lazy eye which causes vision problems). His GAI equivalent is 126 FSIQ.
He probably would be even higher without the vision perception problems. Our neighboring school district requires a FSIQ of 124 which is lower overall, but would not take him since he is only 121 FSIQ, even though he is gifted in VCI. At least our school district uses just one (out of 3) gifted score, even though it has to be a higher score to qualify him for the gifted program (130).
This is an interesting article for you to read:

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/whoaregiftd.htm

also:
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455

There are some others too, but Pearson's says that FSIQ is brought down by processing speed and working memory and therefore on WISC-IV to use only the VCI and PRI to decided giftedness especially if there is a huge discrepancy between processing speed/working memory and VCI/PRI.

Here is the worksheet for the General Ability Index for the WISC-IV:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6546776/WISC-IV-General-Ability-Index-(GAI)-Worksheet

If I think of any other articles I will let you know.