Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Help - WJ Tests of Cognitive Abilities/GIA

Does a GIA score from a WH Cognitive Abilities test correlate directly to a WPPSI or WISC score?

Does anyone know what the following code stands for:

AE
RPI
PR SS (68% Band)

It was a WJ cog abilities vs achievement and one of the fields is "GAI".

The WJ-cog test was run by the school and came up a 15-20 pts lower than our WPPSI from last year. Leaving us on a thread as so whether this kids will get the meager services or not. If it was achievement I would buy it since she is skipped but a change in IQ if that is what I'm getting here.... ??? Thoughts.

Yes

My ds6 had the WJ cog administered by the school psych a few months ago to go along with his other evals for an IEP. Looking back only that short time, I am thinking more and more that his scores on the WJ cog will probably turn out to be a huge underestimate of his IQ, whether due to his performance or due to the way the test is organized, etc. He scored significantly higher on the WJ achievement test, which really doesn't make sense. And since then I know for certain that his achievement scores would be even higher still if he re-took it now - it just so happens that he has hit some sort of developmental growth spurt and has made huge gains (in reading in particular) since that testing. He is quite the late bloomer, and I see changes almost daily these days.

I guess my two points would be (1) I really don't care for the WJ cog - my sense is that might not be particularly reliable; plus I find the WISC much easier to understand (and one day when we test ds privately we may even do the SB5); and (2) some kids can change a lot in the early years.

Here's a page of many different kinds of info about the WJ III cog and ach. You may find answers to some of your questions here although mostly the focus is on LD not gifted identification.

http://alpha.fdu.edu/~dumont/psychology/woodcock_index.htm

In particular you may want to look at the link titled "Understanding WJ III RPI scores and their relation to Standard Scores" found almost at the bottom of the page.

In my child's case (2E) the RPI scores are much more helpful than the SS's. RPI gives you a comparison to typical age (or grade) peers and what is considered expected or typical achievement. The WJ III can be run based on either age (preferred) or grade.

RPI is based on the idea that 90% proficiency is typical and sufficient to be considered mastery of a skill. So the RPI results are given as xx/90 with 90 representing 90% proficiency of the given skill.

You don't have to drop much below 1 SD of the mean to get an RPI that is significantly lower. For example, a SS of 89 may earn you an RPI of 74/90 which is defined as limited proficiency and likely to need/warrant intervention. A SS of 86 early you an RPI of 56/90 - clearly very far below age peer performance.

Because the RPI measures "real world" performance, it is often more useful in my opinion for making school placement decisions. However, many special ed departments want to use only the standard scores and apply an arbitrary 1.5 or 2 SD discrepancy rule to decide on special ed eligibility even when the child shows limited proficiency or is failing. This would mean that the child with a SS of 86 would be excluded from services despite an RPI of 56/90.

I realize this doesn't seem to be your issue but thought others might be interested in understanding this score on the WJ III since this test is widely used for achievement testing in schools.

Patricia

I just picked two arbitrary numbers when I gave my example (should know better than to do that sort of thing - always gets me in trouble!).

I'll edit my previous post to make my point more correctly. Namely that the RPI scores can be more helpful than the SS scores when you're dealing with a 2E child. For example, from my son's recent testing, on writing fluency he got a SS of 89 (barely >-1 SD from the norm of 100 SD 10) but his RPI was 74/90 - defined as limited proficiency well below grade level. His Story recall - delayed was SS of 122 (>+2 SD) with RPI of 96/90. Clearly the lower score has more utility in the school setting than the higher score.

Part of what I was also trying (ineptly) to point out was that being a set distance from the norm in SS doesn't equate in a direct fashion to the RPI scores. In the one case my son's -11 SS equalled -16 RPI; in the second case my son's +22 SS equaled +6 RPI. This is because the WJ III does a transformation (on most reports this is listed as the W scale I believe) to the data that skews it depending on the subtest/cluster.

And getting a lower SS doesn't necessarily translate into a lower RPI. For example, his Math Fluency SS was 84 with RPI of 77/90. His Writing Fluency SS was 89 with RPI of 74/90. So a SS +5 higher translated into an RPI -3 lower.

If you use the WJ III recommendations, then my son's Math Fluency is within acceptable limits but his writing fluency is not (they use a cut off of 76/90 RPI). If you use the school's 1.5 SD discrepancy formula on his SS's then his Math fluency score of 84 qualifies him for services but his Writing fluency score of 89 does not.

This is rather crazy making for those of us with 2E kids.

Yep, a SS of 88 wouldn't justify special ed services under the standard discrepancy formulas yet the child CLEARLY needs help. If you want more info, check that link I put in my previous post to the Dumont Willis site.

Interesting that the first 2 she was >99.9 but some from your pile on the bottom we were barely above average. We need to decide which battle to fight but it seems if achievement is there and you are 1.5 years younger and you can still hold above the line - that the IQ piece from the WPPSI is more likely painting a better picture or even an average of the two tests.

I've seen it mentioned several times on the board and other places that the WJ III COG is more diagnostic in nature and that a GIA score can be lowered by processing speed and therefore a low score may not mean not gifted. But is the reverse true too? Is a GIA score that is *raised* by processing speed mean that it is inflated and that the child is not necessarily highly gifted? How much lower would they probably score on the SB-V or WPPSI?

DD4y8m took the WJ COG this week and got a GIA of 156, but I think it was raised by a Cog Efficiency of 157 which is composed of two of the subtests that Dottie marked as doubtful - processing speed and short-term memory. How much does processing speed raise or lower the overall score?

We had her tested to use in advocating for a grade skip to 1st. This last year she seems to have lost a lot of her lust for knowledge, hasn't progressed much in reading or math, lots of behavior problems/willfullness, refuses to do the new academic things her teachers got for her at her montessori preschool, but then complains that she's bored with the old "baby things" there, etc. etc. I am hoping that a grade skip will turn her back into the bright inquisitive child from before, but was also thinking that maybe I had had it all wrong and she's not really that gifted, especially after reading about all the HG kids here for the last few months.

I'm swaying in and out of gifted denial and just wondering if her WJ scores confirm gifted or if the verdict is still out...

The information and advice on this board has been invaluable - thank you.

Thanks for the reply, Dottie.

Visual Processing 124
Fluid Reasoning 141
Comp-Knowledge 147

The visual processing was the lowest score, with similar scores in visual-auditory learning and auditory processing.

Those 120s scores made me wonder if those were the more accurate level of giftedness rather than DYS level.

We plan do more testing with WJ-ACH in a few months to complete the tests needed for the IAS. I guess we'll have a more complete picture then.