Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Fears of skipping grades

Amen, and Hallelujah! I'm so glad everyone is here and this forum is so active. Finding this site was such a relief to me!

Back to the topic at hand...

Sports are my biggest reason for not wanting to push for grade skipping (which our school system frowns upon anyway). I think he'd be fine socially, and while my mother worries about DS6 driving later than everyone else because he's such a car fanatic, that doesn't trouble me much. (It *is* 10 years away...) But the sports issue is significant in our case because while DS enjoys sports, he's no better than average at them, at least not so far. He improves significantly over the course of a season, so I think he needs time if he's going to get all the good stuff--hard work, team work, being a gracious loser/winner, patience, practice makes perfect, confidence, etc.--that sports can teach. And since I lettered in two sports in high school, I do think that stuff is important.

For now he's getting his sports through pee-wee football and YMCA classes, and that's working. As he gets older, we'll have to decide where our values lie and what needs should take precedence. I think Trinity has the values thing exactly right.

My other worry for grade skipping is the calculus trap thing. I'd prefer that we "go deep" with DS rather than that we "go fast." I think that's hard to get at a school that doesn't have IEP-style plans for gifted kids...and maybe even at schools that do! It's what I try to do with our home school lessons. DS6still wants to go faster than I do, but at least he's doing more complex problem solving with me than he would do at a "regular" school. He's being challenged, and he's getting the (really) hard ones wrong sometimes. That's all good for his development, I think.


<shrug> All we can do is the best we can do and adjust as we need to, right? I'm trying not to worry too much about it, since kids are really very adaptable, and at least trying different things for them shows that we're paying attention to their needs and trying to meet them. What more can any child reasonably expect?

Oh, and I wanted to second what Trinity said about kids learning the social stuff if you teach it to them. Every social situation doesn't have to be ideal for the kids to learn something from it. I think having the academics fit pretty well allows GT kids to do that social growth, regardless of whether they're grade skipped or not. They may have to catch up a bit, but if they're happy, they'll make friends. And since true peers are often older for HG+, I think better social fit can actually be a reason TO grade skip, not a strike against grade skipping!

K-

P.S. Our paths crossed there, Lorel. I just wanted to agree with you that I, too, always dated older guys starting from when I was 14, and not to get all "true confession-y," but I didn't lose my virginity until I was a month shy of 20, in college and deeply in love. I have no regrets about the timing. As with anything else, it depends on the girl and it depends on the guy, but it's entirely possible that the maturity level of the older kids around the GT kid can work in his/her favor. It did in my case. Boys my age were generally intimdated by me, and I was generally not interested in their immature shenanigans.

In the FWIW column...;)

My �high school� boyfriend graduated college (22) the same week that I graduated HS at 18. We eventually broke up though because he reached the �marriage� stage before I did.

I�m pretty certain that my husband won�t accept the same terms for our daughter.

But not all of us! I skipped first and, while it was not the worst thing that could have happened to me, I did not like it. I had good friends who I was separated from; I had trouble making friends in my new grade; I was not any more challenged academically in my new grade than my old one, but the top kids I displaced in the new grade resented me; I was going to go through puberty late anyway and the extra year behind put me way out of synch with my classmates; My siblings resented that I was a grade closer to them. I remember feeling like I had "fit" in my old grade and I never felt like was able to totally connect with the new class. Don't get me wrong; I was not miserable and I did have friends; I participated in clubs and other activities and realize now that I was pretty well-liked on the whole. I just remember thinking--up until college where I felt like I got a fresh start--that I would have preferred that it hadn't happened. Of course, we have no way of knowing how things would have turned out if I hadn't skipped--maybe things would have gone downhill after first grade without the skip. We'll never know.

I am not angry or resentful and I know that everyone involved meant well. But I just don't have good feelings about skipping and I am working hard to make sure that DS doesn't have to get skipped. We are doing lots of subject acceleration and after-schooling. When he was tentatively offered a skip this year, he said, "no way; I like my class." We haven't brought it up again and he seems very happy with the arrangements we have made for him.

Hi Acs,
I'll bet you really enjoyed seeing the IASM advice NOT to skip if it puts the child into an older sibling's grade! Although I have seen it work well if the older sib is female, or the younger sib is Level IV or above. Short didn't matter, Clumsy didn't matter, but irritating the older sibs is apparently a common deal breaker. Actually Clumsy helps as it take the parents off the hook on the sports argument, which I think is a reasonable one for Athletic Families, like the Scholarship Argument which may be reasonable, or may not be since working below level can interfere with grades and intellectual development, but needs to be thought about seriously.

This reminds me of Miraca Gross's perspective, that for PG kids, a single gradeskip is essentially equal to no accomidation at all. = Perhaps you needed more gradeskips to get the academics? I think I did. I'm thinking about the time that Ruff says a Level III or more kid needs to complete elementary school, which I can't remember right now, but seems to be really short.

I remember thinking that my son would have been better off locked in a closet with his video games all day while I worked, than in 2nd grade, and perhaps I should pull him from elementary school and let him watch cartoon until Middle School! ((Humor Alert - that's how I Felt, ok?)) Yes, this was before I found Internet Support, can you tell?

One thing I know is true, that whatever path I had taken as a child, I would have had plenty of complaints about it, because I'm critical by nature. Perhaps someday I will invent a way to experience every option and live every path at once, but for now, it is like being trapped on the Flat Planet of A Wrinkle in Time. But I have grown very fond of this odd Flat World,KWIM?

Here's some of Gross's work - be warned that the IQ scores she throws around are old SB-LM score, so you're kid's 140 is about like a 170, ok? As if we weren't confused enough! ((Total Trinity Seat of Pants Estimate Warning))

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10028.aspx

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Hi Dottie,

I'm glad your little one is who he is, but I'm afraid that some of the ones who need that first skip the most, have already had enough trama that it will be hard for them to be "thrilled."

Mine was more "resigned" than "on board." Again it's another IASM guidline that I think had to be twisted a bit to meet our son's needs. Children are complicated people, and what they show on the surface might not be in their best interests, or what they know "deep down."

Example: I don't want to leave my friends, I'll tutor them all in the afternoon so that we can all skip together.
or-
I don't need a gradeskip, I'll just bring a book with me wherever I go. ((Me: But some teachers consider that rude.))
or-
It's not fair that you want me to do extra work. I'm only going to do what the teacher assigned. ((Me: But most kids are learning how to learn by getting the opportunity to struggle through homework. You are missing all that!))

Finally became: I don't want to do a gradeskip, but I know it's the right thing to do.

A few weeks later, when the gradeskip was approved, he was so happy and excited. It did take time to get his feet under him socially and organizationally. But today he is very happy with his decision. And like the rest of us, on bad days he wishes he had taken some other path, but thankfully those are rare, and he always has the option of going back to his old school or old grade, with the same afterschooling deal.

Honestly, if DS has been willing to Afterschool 30 minutes a day with me, which was shorter than the amount of time his best friend took to do the regular homework, which took DS 90 seconds at most, I was content for him to stay with his current grade. That was the deal.

We also could have chosen from two good schools that would have been two hours of commuting per day.

Every situation is different. Every kid has a different personality, different level of giftedness, different needs. We need lots and lots of reasonable alternatives so that all of our kids can try a variety of approaches. The biggest problem with the Gifted Movement is that Parenting is so short and the Advocacy Process is so slow! By the time we change the world, our own kids will sometimes ((usually? often?)) be too old to get the benifit. And the world will have changed in so many other ways. I think that the best first step is to outline the options, have a good place to listen and be heard, collect lots of stories about "similar" situations, and get enough support to taylor individual solutions for individual children.

Wouldn't it be great to have 100s of other families who are doing exactly what you are doing so we can all feel normal? It would feel wonderful to many of us, myself included. But that isn't availible at this time, and that can be an advantage, because each family will have to come to their own, best possible decision.

((shrug)) and smile,
Trinity

I have to say that this thread has been really great! The personal experiences of all of you allows me to see so many different points of view and really gives me such a great insight to the pros and cons of skipping. I am soooo thrilled to have found a community like this. Thanks for your honest input everyone!

When did you know your kids were ready for a skip? Was it based on a teacher or schools recommendation or was it your choice?

When we had back to school night we were given the outline for the school year and a page on what requirements have to be met by the end of 2nd grade. I almost laughed when I saw the END of year requirements. dd had already exceeded those in 1st grade (and earlier) so I was a bit disappointed to see that even before school started she could pass. She's in the highest spelling group, and even that is way too easy, the highest reading and highest math. Now I will say that she is learning some new things this year which she hasn't been exposed to yet: social studies, geography and some science. But because she is an extremely quick learner she breezes through those as well. While they do accelerated work with her, nothing in school is challenging for her. It comes very easy. At the same time, she doesn't seem bored. She loves her teacher and is happy. So at what point do you start thinking that skipping would be needed or even beneficial?

I'll beg to differ on radical is the only way to go.... DS is doing quite well with one year and there is a light year's worth of difference that that one year has made so far.

I'll also caveat that with: this probably would not be true in any other school, but at our school, there is a light year's worth of difference between 2nd and 3rd and between 3rd and 4th.

Never make generalizations. Oops....

As for DS, the first skip (and only one so far) was at the school's insistence, although we didn't fight it. That skip put him in 2nd grade.

The next spring, a psych recommended a double skip. We looked at her reasons and also looked at the 3rd grade teacher and found that while the psych's reasons were sound, the 3rd grade teacher was something special. DS needed her. (She has taught a PG child before!) With poor organizational skills, DS has been very much challenged by moving to fourth grade this year with his class. (They have a different teacher for each subject. While the material may not be as challenging as I would like, he is finding it interesting despite the level.)

As for next year.... we might consider a skip next year if everyone agrees - but we'll see. I'm not sure I see it as needed right now.

Mary

P.S. The psych based her recommendation on the fact that DS was performing 4 years ahead of his grade when she tested him. If we moved him up 2 grades, he would still be two years ahead. That would ensure good grades, but it would also give some likelihood of challenge. Her point was to keep in mind that performing at grade level is basically like being a C student. To be an A student, you want to be 2 grade levels ahead.

Tammy,
With your school's clustering and compacting, there is reason to hope that your daughter will never need a gradeskip. Perhaps a subject or two "across grade" placment as needed, since if you do the Math, it's unlikely that a school with 75 kids will have another child at her level, unless there is a lot of older children in place, or a high backround socioeconomic status.

Her perfectionism is her built in alarm system. If she is getting worse, instead of better, you have to find someway to challenge her more, and more regularly. If she is complaining, that would be a tip off. For some it's stomach aches, refusal to go to school, or notes home from the teacher. Speaking of teachers, do whatever you can to be sure that her teachers "get her" getting into the school as a volunteer and sizing them up yourself if possible for the year to come.

You want to see her be engaged in some form of self challenge, at school or at home or in afterschool activities, so that when the first hint of mental sweat comes she doesn't think that she's lost her gift. I think that you'll "just know."

smiles,
Trinity