Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Got scores, hoping for feedback

Do you have the option of other types of schools in your area?
Maybe a more progressive school?

Dottie, you gave me an epiphany! I suddenly understand a whole bunch of things. I had forgotten about that view that, generally speaking, MG = enrichment and HG = acceleration. Therein lies a huge amount of the confusion.

The thing is, I completely disagree with the idea of enrichment by the schools, at least for my child. Sounds harsh, but I provide enrichment at home from music to museums, to nature and problem solving. I would prefer the schools not bastardize those teachings, so enrichment holds no interest for me at all. It's either increased academics or remove from school. It's a philosophical difference that has nothing to do with scores and I do hold this attitude across the board for almost all kids. So, that's causing a communication breakdown. The tester kept asking me why I was hung up on acceleration and kept repeating the GT talking point of "His scores don't indicate grade acceleration. Why would you want to put your kid in an environment that could hurt him?" I'm staring at her not connecting the dots but now I see that she's operating on the premise that acceleration/more academics hurt kids unless they're HG. Is that the core of the reason why Americans have such a poor education system? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

The history, as I know it, is that many other countries just teach the basics and culture (music, art, thinking) is taught at home. In the U.S., parents provide tv instead of culture, so the schools have to make up for it during the day. Enter the Reggio. That's why so many parents are opting into project based schools in urban communities. Many of them perhaps don't have a kid with scores high enough for acceleration in public so they go to an independent school who holds the philosophy of acceleration for all kids. It all makes sense now.

He also has tics. So, his tester views that (and it's consistent with the school's talking points) as an anxiety disorder possibly caused by hard work. O.k., now I'm laughing. We took the kid out of the easy class and put him in a harder class and the tics disappeared. The school is mystified and I kept telling them, "I told he prefers structure and challenge." Well, now the school's attitude makes sense. They hold that same core belief that hard work is bad and stressful and could be why he has tics. It is all coming together for me now. Wow!

This is a thought-provoking discussion... it's always dangerous when I think out loud, but this is one of those afternoons... I'm guessing that the problem that giftedticcypher is experiencing (or her son, rather) is that enrichment in core subjects is not enough, but then I guess I'm not sure what true enrichment would look like (forgive me, I keep seeing "enrichment" and thinking "pull out" and maybe that's wrong??). My dd is MG, with similar, just slightly higher wisc scores, and she'd be pretty bored if she was strapped to the regular curriculum in certain areas (e.g. math). As it is, she's asking for more at home re: workbooks even though her pace isn't supposed to be limited in her montessori classroom (I think her teacher is not one to seek out opportunities to make her stretch her knowledge. But at least she's better off than a traditional classroom). So, from what I know about our regular neighborhood school, she'd be pretty bored in there. But, if she were at that school, I don't necessarily think that in her case a grade skip would be the answer. I have a hard time putting it into words, but I think the challenge wrought by a grade skip in a traditional classroom would be too full frontal. Too much all at once. I think it might scare her. (Maybe I'm not giving her enough credit?) It seems to me that I'd rather "stretch" her knowledge rather than challenge her - kind of a distinction of gentleness? But I see the stretching taking place in a way that means advancing through the curriculum rather than enrichment (though again I may be mistaken about what enrichment means). She's heavily interested in multiplication and division at the moment, and I think her cousin, who's also in second grade but at a well-regarded traditional public school, hasn't seen a whiff of anything like that. I'd much rather take advantage of this time, while she's so interested in it, to get her a nice solid foundation in multiplication and division (perhaps even getting the multiplication table committed to memory, even if, or especially if, it happens somewhat by accident). If she had to wait till 3rd grade, she might be bored with it by then(?).

I suppose if dd were at the traditional school, I would be very torn about what to do re: skipping, only because I'm not sure she's developed quite enough to handle the challenge academically in all areas, for reasons of asynchronicity, among other things. But at the same time I think she'd be unhappy if she were in her current grade at the traditional school. (thank goodness for the public charter montessori - not perfect by any means, but there's a ton more individualization re: curriculum pace. and it's freeee.)

Hmmm... back to giftedticcypher, I think Dottie's on to something, that perhaps another type of educational setting that can better address his individual curriculum needs would be best. Do you have any options or are you stuck with the regular school? Are subject skips a possibility? Then again, I can see that in certain situations, a single grade skip could work nicely for an MG kid. Indeed it may turn out to be the least-worst option.

Another option would be to let it go re: the school, keep him where he's at and do a lot of afterschooling. But that wastes so much time and effort and learning desire.

My worry about a grade skip, frankly, would be precisely the lower scores in the working memory and processing speeds.

When a younger child is placed with older kids, differences in those areas are magnified. Many teachers expect GT kids--and especially GT kids who are grade-skipped!--to be fast and to have "photographic memories." If he is not above-average in those areas, I would worry that he might run into difficulties.

This is one of the big reasons we didn't push to grade-skip DS7, frankly, He had above-average-but-not-GT WMI and PSI, and given that his at-grade-level teachers always wanted to pick at his slow speed for getting things done, I just wasn't sure he could succeed and be happy if grade-skipped.

Not that what's right for us is right for you or anyone else, but it's something we considered when facing a similar situation.

I do really understand what you guys are saying. This is all learning for me, so pile it on! The thing is, my gut tells me that DS's true peers are regular first graders, not GT first graders. Why couldn't he just be a below-the-radar, average first grader? There's no GT where I live until second grade at all.

The tester doesn't think that public is good for him at all because of the 2E factor and recommended hs, independent study (1/2 days) or a veeeery flexible independent school who'll let him have whatever he seems to need at the time. We haven't decided if we'll let the rest of the year play out. I mean, his report cards are great, so it's not like he's having real issues. His teacher says he behaves and has no problems with him. So, it's not a disaster. He's just not learning anything and complaining to us at home about the tedious nature of the work on stuff he mastered ages ago and of course, I can see, as his mother, that he's lost his spark and I don't like that.

You're the mom! If you're evaluating all the evidence and you think a grade skip is what's right for him, then I think you do that. No question.

I always think about reversibility and risk--there seems to be fairly little risk with the skip. If it isn't going well, you just pull him out and homeschool, as you would do if you didn't try the skip, right? No real risk there. And if he wants to go back to school or to the independent school next year, you could send him later, with or without the skip after a year out for homeschooling.

<shrug> I don't see a lot of problem there.

Follow your gut. We're talking in generalities; you're talking about your specific child. YMMV!

Hi Dottie - so it's bonuses for speed not points off for going slow? That sounds better to me. Not sure where I got the inverse idea. Thanks!

When I looked at the details of my son's scores, it gave two scores for block design-- one with timing and one without. The lower score (with timing) was used to factor his PRI.

Or anyway I think that's what I saw...

So, GTC's ds would have a second set of scores, at least for block design and any of the other subtests needed for GAI, and should calculate GAI on that? (Sorry if this was already covered, I am going to go back and scan the previous posts in a sec.)

Ok, just reread your most recent (duh!) - most reports don't have these - too bad! I guess we've gone into WISC testing with the tester knowing we *need* this info untimed, so we are definitely getting those numbers. GAI without those numbers is flawed, right, and GTC could expect that - unless the tester says her ds was completely within time limits - the GAI should be considered higher than 129? Again massive supposition here on my part...

(can you tell I am trying to bone up on this?? And not quite getting it! We have a testing results discussion coming up fast...)

Ok, things are getting fuzzier not less fuzzy...but hopefully when I have an actual set of numbers in front of me and a tester willing to take it slow I will do ok...
(I keep getting ahead of myself and expecting to understand everything when "the" sheet of paper is slipped in front of me rather than getting the paper and going from there...feel like I am the one gearing up for a test.)

thanks Dottie!