Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment tester's comments (WJ IIII) - "overthinking"?

I'm going through the psychologist's report on the WJ cognitive assessment (I don't have the achievement portion yet). In the section on processing speed, she discusses the fact that ds had a 21-pt spread between the two subtests that comprise the score for processing speed. She says "he seemed a bit more distracted by his own thinking on this subtest, and he made several errors which, nevertheless, were logical based on his thinking. To some extent, he 'overthought' on this subtest." (I'm not sure which subtest she was referring to).

For me, this brings to mind many testing situations I've had over the course of my life in which the test tries to "trick" the test takers, somewhat, in the hope of spreading out the bell curve. In any event, what do I make of her comment? Have you ever heard a tester make a comment about overthinking? Does it happen often? Just sounded weird to me...

In any event, this test has left me longing to do a WISC (or similar) on ds. I don't like the way the subtests seem to be broken down. I don't have all the subtest scores, just the vague descriptions of the "clusters". For example, I think it's strange that auditory short-term memory plays a specific role in both the Cognitive Efficiency Cluster and the Working Memory Cluster. It would be more helpful if the groupings were more straightforward. I'm anxious to get the subtest scores...

I am no expert in the tests that are administered so hopefully some of the experts here will jump on board. My DS6 is a deep slow thinker. On first glance it looks like he is trying to "beat" the test; however after talking to him about his choices on the test, it seems he is trying to cover up his "weaknesses". Could this be going on with your DS? I also believe that the more creatively-minded see many possibilities for an answer. Example: If there are 2 fruits (apple and orange) and 1 vegetable (tomato) and the question is to circle the 2 that "match", the creative mind gets overwhelmed because he/she thinks "Do they want the red ones? or the fruit? or the ones that grow on trees? or the round ones? etc. You get the jist.

I also could be wrong here but I think the SBV has no timed portions which might be better suited to your deep thinker. Again I am no expert on the tests, I just wish I would have asked for the SBV instead of the WISCIV for my deep thinker who does not do timed tests well at all.

Interesting, you may be right about him trying to cover up his weaknesses. He is keenly aware of them.

According to some other notes of the psych, at one point, ds exlaimed "don't time me!" (LOL, poor ds. Very visual-spatial.) Hmmm, perhaps the SB-V doesn't even measure processing speed, if it isn't timed? One day when we get down to business about private testing for him I'm definitely going to look into the SB-V.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I don't put much in processing speed. I guess if it affects the services you can get at school... I might. But my oldest is speedy quick... our middle child has a time table of her own. Like picture completion ... "I know what story you want but I have a better one...." Does add up to a speedy time but the overall performance/verbal scores aren't affecting by that are they?

Would be nice if when you give birth/adopt your brain gets and upgrade with an "off" switch so we don't drive ourselves nuts.

How old is your son? For us it is huge because even though DS6 is perfectly capable of 3rd grade material, his processing speed keeps his timed test scores in 1st grade. The school is going to do a reading placement test on Monday to test for speed (which I know he won't pass), accuracy (strength) and comprehension (very strong). The funny thing I have noticed with VS DS6 is when he reads and writes he leaves out the "unimportant" words. In other words the words that could be left out and the meaning of the sentence still makes sense. Ex: Mom brought home a bag of apples. would read "Mom bag home apples". Try out this link...

http://www.visualspatial.org/Product_Marketing/RTTK/kidquiz.pdf

LOL, he's Mr. Visual-Spatial (he's also just turned 6, in K). The funny thing is that I found out about VSLs when we had dd tested two years ago. I had read Upside Down Brilliance through a couple of times, and several months had passed, before I realized that duh, ds is a VSL too, only much moreso. His strengths and weaknesses seem more extreme than dd's.

DS isn't one to skip words just yet; he's kind of anal about pronouncing them all correctly (he's at grade level for reading, finally, and still in the thick of speech therapy). But dd (almost 8) on the other hand, not only skips words but occasionally fills in a word with some other similar word - she doesn't take the time to look closely. And yet she's now doing relatively well with reading, compared to before she had done vision therapy. Though I'm not sure if she's yet achieving at a level commensurate with her supposed ability - it's so hard to tell. I'm dying to re-test her privately as well but I don't have an excuse to spend that much at the moment.

thanks for the link - I was wondering where they put that one; it seems they rearranged the front page of that website a little bit.

Same here. DS6 skips words when he reads aloud or uses synonyms instead of some of the words.

That's so funny -- ds6 tested on the WPPSI at 5y5m and ended up with a lot of ceilings. We tried to have him retested on the WISC at 6y1m, but the tester decided to stop after two subtests. Why? Ds kept asking, "Are you trying to *trick* me?" She thought it wouldn't be a fair estimate of his abilities because he was clearly suspicious!

I think it's definitely possible to overthink tests. If our tester had continued with his WISC, ds would have almost certainly gotten a much lower score than he could have -- which is why she stopped! And she refunded our money.

Interesting. Does anyone know if the SB-V or L-M is set up the same way? Perhaps that test is a better indication of creative minds IQ or VS learners???? If so, I am running out for a retest. My son made several comments about the questions on the WISC IV being "weird". Hmmm?

This made me think of something else funny in the psych's notes (which are now in the IEP): "this subtest required him to repeat a series of unrelated words. As the word strings became longer, he exclaimed, 'That doesn't make sense! I don't like it!' This is actually a positive sign that he is monitoring for meaning, and that he understands that meaningful information is easier to recall." Um, yes, but what did that do to his score? did he keep going or did that lead to him stopping prematurely? these are things I'm asking myself (and duh, Mr. VSL prefers meaningful info, who doesn't).

It sounds like you're correct about the SB-5 being better for VSLs http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/About_GDC/newiqtests.htm :


It would seem then that the SB-5 would be the preferable test for my ds6, at least for the purpose of identifying giftedness. I haven't gone on to look at the other advantages and disadvantages yet... Interestingly, dd was tested at the GDC on the WISC, but that may have been before they realized she was a VSL, and they may preferred it for other reasons (we were actively looking for LD type issues).