Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment IEP MEETING

If your son qualifies you really want an IEP.
Here are a few important differences between these two laws.

1. Section 504 does not require written plans.

2. Parents have few rights under Section 504.

3. The school does not have to invite the parent to the meeting when the 504 plan is developed. The school must notify the parent that a 504 plan was developed.

4. Section 504 has fewer procedural safeguards to protect the parent and child.

5. What appears to be discrimination may really not be discrimination.

6. Section 504 protections follows the child after s/he leaves the public school system. IDEA does not.

In many school districts how well a 504 plan works depends on the teachers implementing them. I have heard of many people who have them in place and nothing is done with them.

The Arc is the world�s largest community based organization of and for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It provides an array of services and support for families and individuals and includes over 140,000 members affiliated through more than 780 state and local chapters across the nation. The Arc is devoted to promoting and improving supports and services for all people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

In our area they have an advocate specifically assigned to work with families with children in the public schools. Community Mental Health's Director of Family Services actually was the one to suggest that I contact them about my daughter. I had never heard of them myself before this and certainly wouldn't have thought to call them about a school situation.

A 504 plan is actually part of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) and is NOT part of IDEA (educational law). A 504 plan is basically just identifying that the child has a disability that justifies reasonable accommodations for success in the classroom. It is based on antidiscrimination laws, not equal access to education laws. 504 plans are often most useful for children with physical disabilities (ie: needs to have alternate seating in the classroom or needs to have someone help them get from class to class) but not cognitive disabilities. Schools sometimes prefer to do a 504 plan first when possible and appropriate - there's typically much less involved in terms of paperwork and needed resources for the child.

The current IDEA revisions have moved away from the discrepancy model and that's where RTI (Response to Intervention) comes in. The idea behind RTI is that the schools would be compelled to provide intervention to low achieving students without having to develop a full IEP (lots of time, paperwork, resources, etc). It was, I believe, a change in the act that was driven by NCLB - to help bring up the lower achieving students.

So, gifted kids *do* get left out of this. In order to get, say, a computer for typing a report under a 504 plan you would have to demonstrate that the child is being discriminated against, based on his disability, by NOT providing the computer. In order to get the computer under an IEP, the child has to be determined eligible for special education services (meet entry criteria for one of the eligibility categories, typically after full blown assessment by the team) and then the team must agree that the computer is an appropriate accommodation based on the presenting disability to help the child succeed *at an appropriate level* (read: grade level)in the classroom.

Wonderfully written Debbie. By the way I should have mentioned that my information on 504 plans was taken directly from Wrights Law.

MON- Sorry for what appears to be old or incomplete information. Our district is still very much operating in the discrepancy model. I was just in an IEP yesterday where the district special education coordinator was arguing against an IEP because the child has obvious learning disabilities but is also very low functioning in general. Perhaps it's something they whip out when it's convenient.

Sounds like it might be time to get an outside advocate on board, or at least get a consult.

MON, thanks for posting that article. I thought this was an important point:

I was told by a teacher friend that they are no longer looking at discrepancy between IQ and achievement. If you have to be below grade level and in many places, at least more than 1 grade level behind to get services.

I'm sure others here will have more concrete and helpful info for you.

Is writing his main issue? What is "adversely affecting his performance?"

I have no advice at all. I just wanted to say that I think that you are a wonderful mother, taking on "the powers that be" and advocating for your child. I'm new to the gifted arena and am just appalled that all states don't require that gifted children receive necessary services.

No advice, just support. I hope things work out well for your DS, one way or another, MON.

Sorry to hear of all your frustration. You've convinced me that we will get nowhere at DS6's school for an IEP or a 504 either - though I will try anyway. Again this morning the school counsellor has written that as he has all "Es" on his report card so she doubts CSIT team is needed for his BIP. Funny though - because he acutally has 3 "S:, a totally FAILING for "conduct" and a "U" for unsatisfactory on work study skills. If his conduct is a true "Grade" - then that blows that argument and as I argued with them previously - if a 3rd trip to the Office of Student Conduct really does result in 11-364 days suspension - then wouldn't that qualify as a disabiltiy that's inteferring in his education?!

I'm sure there is room also, to argue that work study skill habits alone would be affected in future if not now by ADHD and possibly require an IEP? Does anyone have a strong opinion on this?

I personally can't see the sense of developing a BIP if they are going to do it based on an FBA they did before he was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD? Unless they would create it exactly the same way, based on behviors observed regardless? Psychologist just wrote and asked us to bring extra information re diagnosis etc. Thank goodness! The counsellor just doesn't seem to be "getting it".

I don't right now feel the need to remove DS6 from class - seeing as they are adamantly against skipping grades so far! Class is working out better and they gave him a "corral" / "private desk area" already which seems to be helping. (Not sure that would go down well under the anti-exclusion laws of a 504 - but it might be okay as an accommodation in an IEP?)

My main concern is that they don't keep on suspending him for behavioral reasons.

I'd really appreciate further clarification from anyone here that knows for sure whether CSIT teams HAVE to legally do something. Is it true that they need a diagnosis before they can test of their own accord? I read somewhere that they have a certain amount of days before they have to respond to a written request and that if they test and a parent disagrees with their diagnosis it's legal for the parent to insist that the school pays for a second opinion from an outside source. Don't know if that only applies to VA.

We were told at the last meeting that even though they might chose to do extra tests on top of what we were getting done privately, they certainly would not repeat any tests within a 6 month period, esp. with gifted child - as they tend to remember the answers. That seemd fair enough - but it also seemed liked they were passing the buck - quite happy for us to part with our money first.

I also don't like the counsellors tone in regard to their coming up with a BIP when she says things like "he must learn to conduct himself a specific way around adults". A child with ODD is obviously not necessarily ever going tolearn that unless there is way to get them over the ODD, and as that is apparently liked to the ADHD, I guess "curing" that is the key.

Thoughts?

Keep on advocating for 2E kids will still be my motto. I think it's awful that gifted kids are not reaching their potential and schools don't care - possibly even worse that accommodations are not being made for gifted kids with disabilites.

Seems to me there needs to be a change in IDEA. 2E needs a blending point between the current PArts B & C and the legislation that deals with GT.

Secondly - States with a GIEP - according to what Dottie says -don't accommodate to disability properly either. Seems to me we need IEP, GIEP and something in the middle. Can we start a campaign? Got confirmation that someone name Connie Lorenson is already lobbying in Fairfax VA for this!

Sorry again - too many subjects in one thread probably!!