Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment So do ALL GT kids have lower WMI and PSI?

Q, this is DS7, too. He doesn't need repetition to learn. What I think is going on is that there's a difference between being slow with input and slow with output.

DS7 tends to learn concepts lightning fast. He understood HOW to multiply after one lesson--one problem, even! He learned long division yesterday--in one quick, painless lesson!--and he can already express remainders as fractions or divide out to decimals. It was kind of spooky!

But to produce ANYTHING, he needs time to mull things over. Computation is sloooooow. He is getting better at that, but it's still not fast. And it looks like dawdling, so it's easy to get frustrated. That's where testing helped me.

And BTW, he's not very stubborn. He's definitely a people pleaser. (Like his mom was at that age...)

Ok questions and G3 - our kids sound similar!!! Interesting!

Questions - I could have written your post!

Things that come to mind w/ DS. He figured out multiplication on his own at 4yrs old. He's 8.5 now. For 8x4 he'll still do 16+16=32. 8x3 is 16+8. Now we spent a day chanting 8x3 is 24 so now he gets that one instantly. This is the first time in math where I think memory/practice (multi/div facts) has really come into play and it has really shaken his self-esteem. everything else was learn it once, got it, let's move on. This is something he needs to continually refresh on. With a 3week break on multi facts over Christmas, he got really rusty and was so frustrated he just now absolutely, steadfastly refuses to work on them.

But at other times, he'll read a 2step problem and in seconds spits out the answer. So it's not consistent. I don't know...for him I think it's learned behavior and stubborness.

Mine is really just like this too! Conceptually, he learns thing instantly... answers logical word problems without having to think and scoffs at the part where he is asked to "show his work"-- grasped multiplication intuititively but until very recently added on his fingers. Recently read every single word he could find in the library about pirates, but when pressed by me to write something about pirates, after much complaining and anxiety, wrote "pirits are cool" or something like that.

I also think it's learned behavior and stubborness, and I feel like it's getting harder and harder to reach him.

Very interesting. I wonder...do these children have less risk of underachievement because they have to put in the effort and learning at an early age? Or do they equate smart = no effort and shut down?

Finger counting - I see that, too, and can't believe it. Timez Attack has worked pretty well for multiplication, and I just decided to try this as well: http://www.citycreek.com (Times Alive download - it's quite expensive but enough already - it's time to get this stuff down!) Surprisingly, he likes it and it seems to be working. 6x6 is thirsty-six. I learned about this from one of you (not you specifically).

And I still think it's all about desire. Usually, to add or multiply, he's counting on his fingers or adding multiples - then today, someone wanted to show him how to estimate how many dinosaurs are in his book (and he really, really wanted to know) and no problem - he runs to the desk, writes out and solves 19x47 quickly on his own. If he had a worksheet that said fill in 9x7 he'd be trying to peek at the chart, squirming, groaning, asking about the weather, saying he's hungry, etc.

Inky - in my son's case, it's equating no effor w/ smart and shutting down. It's been a tough few months.

Questions - OK have we all been subjected to a cloning experiment whose goal is to test nature vs nurture?

DS8 doesn't count on his fingers but I think the ONLY reason why he doesn't is because Rightstart doesn't allow it and neither do I. Until teaching Rightstart, I still counted on my fingers. And I always felt not good at math b/c of it. My other thought was perfectionism issues - he doesn't want to be wrong so something concrete like fingers is guaranteed. Once it goes over 10 he'd lose count on his fingers and realized it was no longer a sure thing and switched to mental math.

Though reading for him was effortless.

So what DO you do when you get a kid like mine who needs a bit of repetition and practice but eschews anything that remotely looks like practice?

I wonder what this means for my 5yr old. He has a wonderful memory, quick to learn and retain. Quickly catching up to big brother as far as mental math abilities and I think will pass him soon b/c he doesn't mind practice.

This is all very interesting...

DS7 doesn't count on his fingers, but only because of repeated use, I think. He may well be counting in his head, though, so I'm not sure it's any different.

I don't think he's lazy about the work or a perfectionist though. He just has to take his time.

He does occasionally get distracted by something and draw on his page or write funny words on his math sheet instead of doing the problems. That's the dawdling behavior. I think it's mostly procrastination, actually. If he takes too long to do the work, he (wrongly) thinks he might escape the work. This has never been an effective strategy for him.

My dd did very well on the WMI but pretty average on the PSI. It shows too. She has great memory recall but is a very SLOW worker!!

So what do I do with a kid like this?... I honestly don't know. Generally speaking, I subscribe to the philosophy that children should play as much as possible-- I would have sent my ds to a waldorf school if I hadn't realized that it would be a disaster for a kid who needs LOTS of rules and whose brain is on fire...
I guess I need DYS to help me with this. You guys mention programs (Rightstart, etc) but I have never tried any of these. Partly, I don't think 6-yr-olds should be tutored (lots of parents here in NYC have tutors for their kids who don't need them, just so their kids will be perceived as "ahead" of the other kids), but something clearly needs to be done here... I foresee lots of battles of will, tears, etc if I try to force him to overcome these things that are difficult for him. But if I don't, the same things will happen that's happened at his school-- his teacher just lets him do whatever he wants, which is read in the back of the room-- and he participates only in what interests him. As a result, he has an incredible body of knowledge (last night over dinner he told me all about Copernicus and Galileo)-- but, he has no work ethic at all.