Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Gifted or not?

My son (9) was first tested in first grade, and the results of the WISC IV and Woodcock-Johnson were at the 94th and 99th percentile, respectively. He has since never actually been in a gifted program because we lived in an area with very bad public schools and the Catholic school he went to really did not accomdate his needs. We have since moved and because he complained about being bored I asked for him to be tested again (they did not accept his old results). I just got his Cogat results, which put him at the 92nd percentile. That is not enough to qualify him as gifted (95th percentile cutoff).

I am not quite sure what to do now, I am very unhappy with the school (he is doing the same math he did at the private school over a year ago) and was planning to use the results from the Cogat to put pressure on the school or even have him moved to a different school. While our state mandates gifted testing, the schools don't actually have to offer specific gifted programs, which does not make any sense to me at all. But I worry that since he scored under the cutoff they will just keep telling me that he is fine.

He is also bilingual, I wonder whether that could have affected the test results? When I first asked his teacher about maybe accelerating him in math, she said they really don't like to do that with kids that are new. It seems to me that there should be a way to figure out whether he can handle it. Any suggestions are appreciated.

The CoGAT is just a screener, so it is possible that he is GT and the test just didn't show it. It's not the gold standard for GT ID, though schools often act as if it is...

I'm also curious about why they didn't look at the individual scores. Many, MANY GT kids are not GT in all areas, and there are 3 on the CoGAT: Verbal, Nonverbal and Quantitative. Many kids show as GT in one but not all. Did they only accept an overall score? Did he break 95% on one of them?

Do they accept outside testing? If they do, you might consider finding a tester skilled in working with GT kids and try a better test.

Good Morning Dear!
I loved this comment above - and thought: Democracy has a lot of wonderful qualities as a political system, but internal consistiency just isn't one of them!

How long ago is this? Is he still new? Perhaps it's time to ask again?

Seems to me that there are two senarios here -

Senario 1) If your son has some mythical 'perfect IQ test' and truly scored in the 93 or 95th percentile - how would you deal with him complaints that he is bored at school? (And oh yes, the bilingualness can throw off the tests!)

IF this were true, I would read Ruf's book 'Losing our minds: Gifted Children left behind' and pay particular attention to the suggestions for her 'Level Ones'

Believe me, most schools aren't geared to do anythign for kids in the whole top 10 percent. You are right to ask if the time your child is putting into school is being well spent. If it isn't - then you have to consider alternatives: Homeschooling, afterschooling, summer programs.

Senario 2) He really does make whatever cutoffs have locally been defined as gifted, and you should persue further testing to -

a) help yourself know how seriously to take the bordome complaints (Cheap Easy Do-It Yourself Assessments might serve as well here)
b) persuade the school that he needs more (Many of us have shared this wish; Many have been dissapointed)
c) help you get ideas on how to met this particular individual child's learning needs. (Make sure that the professional you hire is good at this.)
d) find out if there is a LD or bottleneck that is holding him back which could be easily changed.


Solala, What am I missing here? As you read my post, you may feel like you need to 'correct' me! This is good! The post is designed so you can say: NO - I MEAN (fill in the blank)

All the information that you need to make a good decision is already in your own mind. Getting this information to the surface can be a drag sometimes, yes?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I've had 4 friends, all with HG+ kids, all take the CoGat and miss the cutoff for their schools gifted programs. Most schools use a total score rather than looking at individual subtest scores.

There is more info on subtests than any total score. Do you have the breakdown of the WISCIV? Many, many kids have scored low on working memory and/or processing speed scores but have 130+ on either verbal score or perceptual reasoning. Depending on the school, I feel these kids need services as well. I read in some gifted book, that a kid at 124-129 level can be very bored to his/her detriment the same a kid in 145+ range can be in a school geared for 130s. Also, you say he was 99th% on the WJ! Do you have that breakdown? That can tell you where his greatest achievement areas are if it was a good test day for him.

You have to try to determine what "bored" means to your child. FOr my son, bored means "I'm not interested in that," "I already know that so I don't want to do it again," "That's hard and I don't want to put forth the effort."

A friend in my district recommended having the teacher administer the end of year test. If he gets 90% on that correct, he could use to move up. And I've seen this stressed so many times, it doesn't need to be 100% correct.

I also second getting outside testing done, especially if the school will accept the results. It would be good to find out if there is a psych they recommend as they might only accept scores from someone they *approve* of.

90% always seems too high to me. Does EVERY kid who passes Xth grade get a 90%? If not, then why require scores *that* high for a grade skip?

I'm not suggesting 60% or even 70%. But a 75-85% at the start of the year means the kid is going to be learning literally *nothing* (academically speaking) for 75+% of his time in school that year. That seems unconscionable to me!

I think of Jool's DYS son who got an 88% in Dec. and is being refused all math services because of 2%.

Hel-looooo? Logic?

In our case, stonewalling trumps logic. If they gave the test next week, he'd get that 90% criteria to be able to test at the next level!

Solala, it couldn't hurt to do cheap do-it-yourself testing as Grinity suggested. Someone suggested that we test DS6's academic levels in math using TAKS - the Texas State Assessment. It's free and estimates mastery of curriculum for different grade levels. Your district may or may not accept it as evidence that acceleration is needed. In our case, our district will not accept it, but we may use it as data for a <ahem> third party to decide if DS needs to be accelerated in math. Here's the link: http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/

I knew that would bite me in the b*&( lol. I just threw out 90% to highlight that it's NOT 100%. If I recall correctly from Reforming Gifted Education, it's more like 85% but schools will often insist upon 95%. For subjects like science and social studies, that's crazy but they are so subject specific. I think in the Math talented kids book (blanking on the exact title) they also suggest 85% but I'll have to double check.

I agree Dottie!!! I don't see things as a clean cut ... but I know many programs do. either you make the magic number or you don't but on any given day, you'd score several points higher or lower so I think if you're a bit below should be considered as well.

I'm in a very similar situation as you with your DS. My DS has very similar scores. I found using my WJ achievement scores with the administration effective in getting additional enrichment. They couldn't argue with his scores. In our particular case, my son needed enrichment in math. DS (1st grade) scored in the >99.9% in several of the math portions of the WJ test, but did not get to that 97% or 98% on the IQ test. He does not qualify for gifted services, but clearly needs more. The kids does double digit multiplication and the first grade curriculm ends with learning addition and subtraction facts 1-20. I met with my principal and they placed him in a special math program that kids at our school begin in 3rd grade and/or if they need additional tutoring. The program is modular based so he works through levels until he "passes". For the moment, it is working for DS (he working 3 grade levels up).

I'm not sure if my DS is "gifted" or not. I do know that he is way beyond grade level and needed more. Is it perfect, no, but it is better than nothing. I also felt like I had to fight like heck to get this small service.

I would encourage you to speak to your administration to see if your school has a similar program in your child's area of strength that he could participate in. The worst they can say is no and be prepared not to take their first answer. My DS is much happier with his school day now that he is in the program.

I wish you luck.