Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments She wants to go to montessori...I think?

I second this as well!

Also, what is VERY informative is just sitting in the class observing. (If you have the luxury of time) Just sitting for a while "like a fly on the wall" can tell you way more about how the teachers conduct themselves with the kids than pat answers to questions.


By itself, this is a red flag


Only a little reassuring.

This may sound insensitive but the only way you will know for sure is to try it. And then give it a month or two.

If she *hates* you could pull her out quickly.
Or she might like it. If for nothing else than the novelty (as it is different than what you usally do)

My DSalmost5 loves his Montessori and it was a life saver for us. But I think in some ways, he is ready to move on soon.
Nothing is fixed for very long with some of our kids.

Do you think the potential positives for your daughter outweigh the potential negatives? If you are very aware of the what the negatives are you should be able to catch them if they crop up.

Thank you. I have an appointment to sit in on the class on Friday, so that should be interesting. I was hoping to have made up my mind before that though, but it may just not be possible. I have another appointment tomorrow at the other preschool we are looking at, just to go have another look at it. This other preschool is filling up quickly and there are only a handful of positions available so that is what the pressure is right now.

Anyhow...maybe the answer will come to me in a dream tonight, wouldn't that be nice!

and hmmm the potential positives versus the potential negatives...I just don't know. There are such different pro's and con's for both schools, it is almost hard to compare. Something to think about though, thanks!

Lovely discription EastnWest!

It doesn't matter what people SAY about what they do, it matters what they do. So spend time watching each environment in action, under normal circumstances.

It's funny to me how the concerns change when one is looking back on things.

Here's what I want to know!

a) If you don't like whatever program you choose - how long to you have to keep paying for it?

b) If you have to join a program mid year - will any be availible?

c) How long a day is it?

d) How many days a week?

e) are any of the programs such that she will be able to interact with older children?

f) Does the Montessori Program seem to feature activities that would be at a good readiness level for your DD? Is your DD wildly asynchronous in the areas that the Montessori is teaching?

g) You say that the playbased preschool is 'just like what she's already done' - do you mean that she has interacted with others and done stuff like that without you or that you have dones stuff like that 'you and her?' If she's only done it with you before, perhaps it's a good 'babystep' for her to do what she knows without you? I don't know that answer, but I do know that it makes a big difference. Watching her with the Teachers will show a lot.

Personally when 'professionals' start talking about 'for the charts' I see flashing red lights and want to run in the other direction, because I am dealing with someone who is 'administering a system' instead of allowing themselves to connect with a living human. Was it the 'head teacher' who said that? It takes careful observation and imagination to 'know' a child, not following a manual. OTOH, if your daughter is perhaps on the young side, and is natually ready to fit their system, perhaps it would work well in spite of the ridgidity.

My kid was very very ansychronous, so that's why the flashing red lights.

It sounds like you are looking to start in September...is there any way she can sign up for a few sessions of each in advance? Can she start in September in two places and transition if needed?

One more thought. My son enjoyed every school environment he was ever in - for the first 6 weeks. When he likes something, he LOVES it, when he dislikes something, he CANT BEAR it. He's not a Drama Queen, and is quite stoic in his approach, but his feeling tend to be very strong. So watch her reactions, but if you have to committ for any length of time, throw in a heavy does of 'Mom Sense.'

Best Wishes,
grinity

Onsie -
I know that you are ready to have some of the weight lifted, but think very carefully if you want the weight lifted from the academic area or the social area. My hunch is that anyone with a child who is in the 'top 3%' type of gifted is best to let the weight lift from the social area and save themselves for the academic area.

Perhaps another thread can be started looking for ideas about homeschooling activities that suit your family? Same basic advice - intead of waiting for school to solve your challenge, reach out and look for new oportunities to make it work for you 'right now!' As young as she is, you can just start her on workbooks from the local bookstore, and see if she likes them! The goal is to get to know yourselves - her as a learner, you as sidekick.

Smiles,
grinity

I just joined this group and saw this post. My thoughts may echo those of others. My older son, now 12, had an absolutely wonderful exerience in a Montessori primary school his kindergarten year (he turned 5 in September of that year). I thought Montessori was a good fit for him, and if there had been the opportunity he'd have been in a Montessori school sooner. I never told the teachers I thought he was gifted, but they figured it out pretty fast.

They let him work at his own pace, and while they encouraged him to explore different areas they didn't coerce. They did ask all children to finish one material before going to another, but "finish" meant work to what the child perceived as a stopping point then put the material away. (I wish the putting things away when he's done lesson had stuck!)
When I observed the classroom in the middle of the year (through a one-way glass) some of the younger kids were spending 5-10 minutes on a material and other kids were working on the same thing the whole time I watched. Some were working together, some alone, and some working alone would stop to talk to each other or look at what others were doing, then go back to work.

The teachers actually had to make an exception to the rule for my son because several times during the year he gave himself projects that would last several weeks (they could leave mats out overnight). He was allowed to leave one of these projects to work only on materials set up for two or more children, then come back to his own work. I don't think that was a pre-existing policy -- but the teachers were flexible enough to see that it was appropriate and wouldn't seem unfair to other children. He really did have a goal in mind for when a project was "finished" and wouldn't stop until he reached it. I see that as a good lesson -- better than dashing something off for an arbitrary deadline even if it's not really done.

So I'd also see the "checking things off" as a red flag. Even in a large Montessori school teachers should be able to circulate and see what children are doing. They should be able to see and note which children give up on a material when it gets hard and perhaps suggest an easier material or else offer encouragement to stick it out longer -- but still let the child make the call. They need to be asking themselves why the child isn't "finishing."

As you probably know, "Montessori" isn't a copyrighted name and there are several large organizations with somewhat different approaches that train and certify Montessori teachers (as well as some schools that don't have Montessori trained teachers at all). Most Montessori schools allow parents and prospective parents to observe the classroom, sometimes from behind a one-way glass. If you can do this at the school you're looking at I think a lot of your questions might be answered. Look at the kids and look at how the teachers are interacting with them -- and ask questions if you don't understand what you see.

Also, my understanding is that Maria Montessori thought it was a good thing to have a large number of kids with different abilities and personalities in the classroom and also to have children of different ages together. That was part of the learning experience. It's easy to draw a distinction between "play-based" and "academic" preschools. In a good Montessori school, in my opinion, the distinction should be somewhat blurred. The kids should feel they're playing (albeit with some rules/procedures) and the "work" shouldn't be coerced on them. Maybe like the kind of workplace where it seems the adults are actually having fun . . . .

As for after Montessori -- I did end up homeschooling my son in the third grade (second in math) because he was so far ahead of even what gifted programs offered. But that may have been him and not the Montessori school. We moved away from the town where he went to kindergarten and more Montessori wasn't even an option. The Montessori teachers had been concerned at the midyear that he wasn't doing enough math, but as a sixth grader last year he went to national MathCounts and had the state high scores on two levels of AMC tests (8 and 10). Their patience let his interest in math come when he was ready -- and paid off.

Hope some of this helps.

Sing it, sister!

In our mid-year conference at the Montessori pre-K, when DH and I were griping that DS7 (then 4.5yo) wasn't being allowed to read yet though he was reading simple chapter books at home, the teacher said that he hadn't been "checked off" for the pre-reading exercises. The sticking point was the "sound boxes," boxes containing little items that all started with the same sound. He had been doing work like that for literally 2/3 of his life, if not more! It was not interesting to him, he had done it once already but the teacher didn't check him off for some reason, so he just wasn't interested in doing it again. He wasn't allowed to do anything else until he completed that task, so he just skipped the language arts center altogether and did other things. The teacher actually thought he was BEHIND in reading! Clueless!

"We know he can do the sound boxes," said the teacher, "but he hasn't completed them for me."

"If you know he can do them," said my highly logical DH, "then why do you need to check him off? Isn't the point of the checking off that you know he can do them?"

Faced with our insistence and logic--and the voice of a man, I suspect, which makes my feminist blood boil!--they finally (FINALLY!) caved and let him skip something. Not everything--he still had to do a bunch of pre-reading nonsense that he'd mastered years earlier, but they finally let go of the sound boxes. I suspect they also started watching him more closely, probably in the hopes of proving us wrong, frankly. But it worked in DS's favor because they saw we were right.

DS leapt ahead, and by the end of the year, he was the only kid in the whole school who didn't have to read a book twice to be checked off for it. They finally got that if he did it, it was really done. *sigh* It only took 3/4 of the year...

To this day, DH and I call any dumb hurdle that an educator won't let go of, no matter how pointless for the particular child, a "sound box."

Hi -

Just wanted to add that I know it must be hard to wait all the way until Friday to get the additional info. Hang in there!

Now that you have another school to look at, that can be a healthy distraction.

- EW

Thank you for this reply:)


Well, I went for another visit at the playbased preschool and registered dd there. it is only $25 to register, so I can easily change my mind. I asked a lot more questions about the schedule and the particulars of it all and I do feel really comfortable sending her there. it looks like so much fun...but even as I type that I wonder if it is still too much of what we already do. Who knows.

You have some good questions Grinity...
a. I have to keep paying for teh programs for 2 months after I give notice. The program are about the same price and 2 months would cost around $300...not a huge problem.

b.Mid year is not a problem at either school, but it would be in the afternoon program, as the monrings fill up.

c. 2 hours (montessori), or 2.5 hours (playbased) per day.

d. 2 days a week

c.right now, most of the montessori room looks like it would be a nice challenge for dd. Even the language centre focuses on cursive and we have not touched that, so she may not even recognize many of the letters.

d. The playbased preschool is exactly what we already do, but you are right she is always with me. There are toys (free play), snack time, gym or outside time and circle time. Circle time consists of a coupel of songs and then learning about numbers, letters and colours (she will be bored but it is only 15 minutes or so).

The play based preschool starts a couple of months later than the montessori because she must be 3 to start in the playbased school...so she couldn't start in both in september.

When the teacher told me about the proper order for completeing the tasks etc, something inside me defintely didn't like that. I don't see how a 3 year old would enjoy being told, no you can't do that right now you have to do this taks first. I just don't think it would go over very well...but then again I have no idea what dd will be like in that setting. She is not able to have a trial run for a day or two, unfortunatley...they just don't allow it.