Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments kindergarten advice

Hello everyone! We recently had our 4 1/2 year old tested with the WPPSI, and she scored a 139 FSIQ (99.5th percentile), with a 141 VIQ and 135 PIQ (Processing speed was low - 110 - due to perfectionist tendencies, which I expected). While it's my understanding that her scores do not indicate that she's HG, we are still a little nervous about what to do for kindergarten next year.

We moved to our current district when I was pregnant because of the school system's reputation and excellent test scores, but we didn't consider checking out gifted programs at that point. After observing a kindergarten classroom last week, I'm not so sure we made a good choice. While our district is in an upper middle class suburb, they appear to have very little in the way of gifted programs. For the two elementary schools in our area (about 600 kids), there is one half time gifted teacher - and they don't identify kids before 3rd grade. Even worse, when I asked how many 3rd graders were in their program, they told me "One." ONE?

Anyway, we're now second-guessing our school decision, and I wondered if anyone out there had advice for us - our daughter isn't on the extreme end of giftedness, but I can tell just from observing the K classroom that she already knows a large majority of what they were doing. We have the option of a private Montessori school, but it's expensive (although when I observed there, I loved it). In your experience, would a kid at her level do okay in our public school without gifted services?

I am going to wait for Dottie to answer for the numbers since she is our house specialist! But what you described for the school districts is a little disturbing. Not so much for the testing and gifted program starting at 3rd grade since this is not uncommon. In my opinion poor structure for the district, but not uncommon. But shocking about a part-time gifted coordinator and only one person in the program. Okay maybe I am being a little elitist here but the fact that you live in a upper middle class area I would think would yield more gifted students. Of course my senses could be warped b/c of the districts I am in/near and that is due to a large university.

I think you are right to be concerned and really need to ask some direct questions and listen for the blanket statements. If you do get them it is major red flags.

I agree that it's a disturbing set-up, but I also think it's quite common, even in fairly wealthy areas.

Our area--also middle to upper middle class, with a pretty good chunk of downright wealthy people--doesn't ID until 3rd grade unless a teacher or a parent requests early testing. There are no programs whatsoever until 4th grade, and they are slim: the weekly pull-out for an hour kind of thing. Not ideal!

The GT coordinator--one per school--handles everything for that school: all the paperwork and administrative stuff and copying work, as well as the teaching load. If the teaching time amounts to half-time for 600 kids, I'd be surprised. They do their best, but there's too much to do.

Now, a GT program is not necessarily required for a GT child to have needs met. Acceleration--by subject or grade--might be much better. Grouping with other GT kids in the classroom can be really super. Differentiation, which is not my pick for GT policy, still can be a lifesaver for some kids if it is practiced consistently across the grades.

In short, a band-aid of a weekly pull-out GT program is not nearly as important as actually meeting the needs of a child.

Jen, how flexible is the school? Are there any kids who have been accelerated, by subject and/or grade? Do they group? Do they differentiate? If so, what does that really look like in practice? (For example, giving MORE of the same work isn't really differentiation! It's punishing the GT kids!) Do they try to challenge all kids, or is their attitude that since a child is ahead, she can just sit on her thumbs until everyone else catches up? What's their approach to individualizing education?

The danger of "good" schools in my experience is that they sometimes think that they have it all figured out and so they are inflexible. "We know what we're doing because all our kids are GT" is NOT what you want to hear! The needs of GT kids change so fast that they need a school set-up which will respond accordingly when things change.

I think the moral of the story is that a "good" school may or may not be good for a particular child. Good for the average kid may be really awful for a GT kid. The attitude of the school to individual learning needs and the attitude of the teacher are a lot more important than a GT program, IMHO.

Take a look at acceleration. If the instruction is good at all grade levels, then acceleration may be a good fit.

Kriston,

Their response to the question of what to do with high ability kids before 3rd grade was two-fold:

1. Most kids "catch up" by 3rd grade. Since we live in an upper middle class district with lots of SAHMs and enriched preschool experiences, it is not uncommon for kids to come into kindergarten way ahead of the norm. This is why they say they don't test for gifted programs until 3rd grade. For kids who are already reading in K, they are pulled out for 20 minutes PER WEEK with the GT. *sigh*

2. Differentiation for high ability levels takes place in the classroom. However, when I observed a K classroom, I noticed that there were 4 stations during the reading period: one with the teacher, one with a parent volunteer, one at the computers, and one at a table where kids were coloring pictures. The parent was doing some canned "put the animal picture in the right Letter Sack" activity, and the teacher was doing sight words. Then the kids all rotated, so it looked to me like everyone got the same thing anyway.

The upside of this school is its reputation as being one of the best in the state - so I'm thinking maybe I'm just off-base or expecting too much??

I work in the nearby urban district, which actually does more for the gifted kids but has a generally lower-ability population in reg. ed. We could apply for a special transfer here, but it would be a lot tougher logistically.

I don't know, maybe I am making too much of this - I teach middle school science, so I have no real basis for which to compare my daughter - and I keep thinking she can't be THAT much higher than other kids her age. Maybe we'll just try the local school and see how it goes. I don't think they would accelerate her at this point because she is only just starting to read and she has a late spring birthday....so I'm not sure acceleration would be the right choice anyway. Arg - decisions!

Jen -

Have you double-checked the GT regulations at your state level? In my state GT services don't start until 3rd, with testing in Nov. of 2nd grade. However, in further researching the matter, I discovered that the state's own GT Best Practices legislation states that GT services cover grades 1-12. I called the state dept. of education and talked to the educational consultant in the Gifted and Talented department. He told me that if I pushed it, the district would have to test my son earlier and provide needed services before grade 3.

Might be worth a check.

Also, with my older child we were able to have her subject accelerated beginning in 1st grade.

I agree with Kriston and if you can visit and get to know the school and teachers ahead of time and get them to take you seriously - that will probably help you out. I finally, got my son's school in VA to agree to have a gifted education specialist assess my son even though he is only in K. They currently don't even have enough "gifted" 1st Graders to have him join an advanced cluster. There are about 7 identified gifted kids in the entire school. Emotionally, they are worried he will miss his free time in K. For a gifted kid - I see that "free time" - as the time they get to really "think" and be creative in the way they need to be? We are waiting to see if they will agree to "pulling him out for an hour here or there" because he also is having so many behavioral issues - but it's all happening way too slow when you consider what might be at stake intellectually right now.

Of course, if he tests "super gifted" or even "highly gifted" I will probably reconsider the entire situation. The worst for him all along has probably been not bonding with his peers as his language is so in advance of most little kids it ailienates them. Girls, however, tend to be more flexible than boys and adjust to just about every situation (Read - "What Could He Really be Thinking") - however, that often means that their needs get overlooked.

If you already have your private WPPSI - you're ahead of the game. Montessori, though expensive might be a better option. If our Montessori experience had been less disappointing, or if I could have afforded the better Montessori school in town and they didn't have such a ridiculously long waiting list - I still think they offer a better introductory program. (You can view my other posts on Montessori for more on pros and cons). Their math system is so tactile - and in our experience, they encouraged all Pre-K students to stay until at least 1st grade because usually Montessori educated Pre-K's get bored at state school repeating material they already know. Torture for my son right now learning letter of the week for probably the 4th year in a row. Montessori isn't terribly renowned for being great beyond 1st grade though - so in a year or so, you'd be back to square one.

You could also look for an Elementary School using the International Bacc. program. I hear the one in the really "posh neighborhoods" my side of town are trying to introduce that. Don't know to what degree that is more challenging. I've also heard it said State school is still the best place for gifted kids if they are likely to get into the gifted centered schools in your county by 3rd grade - although private schools will mostly take 90th percentile kids only anyway. You could consider private until 3rd grade maybe? Then reassess.

Sorry. I know what you're going through - but I feel bad for not doing more in advance when it comes to getting to know how your local school is likely to react. So - don't wait to get started if you have the luxury of visiting frequently!

BTW, to answer your original question:



Our son did fine in the same basic situation you describe for his K year with a *great* teacher who recogized him as GT, felt the need to teach him something even though he was ahead, and did a fabulous job of differentiating the curriculum. Plus it was a half-day, mostly play-based curriculum, so he had time to himself to pursue his interests outside of school. It was a good year. His stoplight for discipline issues never went to yellow--not once all year!

He did NOT do okay in this situation in 1st grade with a full-day, highly academic program--meaning all letter sounds all the time: ugh!--and a not-good teacher who did not feel the need to teach him anything, did not differentiate, and didn't recognize that his acting out was a sign of mild brain death, not discipline problems. He was angry, sad, frustrated and disappointed in everyone who was supposed to be taking care of him. The light was going out of his eyes. He was thinking of himself as a bad kid.

We pulled him out for "emergency homeschooling," and it was the right thing for us to do.

I'm not saying that's what you or anyone else should do. Every case is different. But in our particular "good" school system, it was pretty clear that I could slave away at advocating for my child and not doing very well at it--SO not my strength! --or I could spend that time just teaching him. The latter was more appealing to me and seemed a better solution for our particular child, so that's what we did.

In a more flexible school or in an area less friendly to homeschooling, I'd have gone another route. But in our case, it was the obvious choice.

<shrug> FWIW...

I checked with the state, and if I request testing before 3rd grade, the school has to comply. However, even if she qualifies, there is no law about how much time they need to give her - could be 20 minutes one day per week and they would be in compliance.

I've been reading a lot about how gifted kids handle school in mixed ability classrooms, and I'm interested in the differences between GT boys and girls. It seems as though boys act out more often, complain of boredom, etc., while girls are often teacher-pleasers who do their work without complaint. A friend of mine (whose DD turns out to be PG) sat in K half the school year until her mother asked the teacher if he was aware that her daughter was reading Harry Potter. The teacher didn't even know she could read! Seems the kid was simply sitting quietly in the class, completing her worksheets, and getting along fine. Needless to say, the mom requested testing and eventually moved DD to a self-contained gifted program for HG and PG kids.

My kid is not that high, but knowing her, I think she will do much the same thing in a regular classroom - sit quietly and do what the teacher asks her to do without complaint (but never really being challenged). This is what's happening already with preschool - they are doing the "letter of the week" thing, which she's known for 2 years - but she's not complaining about it at all. In fact, despite the fact that she gets virtually no intellectual stimulation at preschool (at least none that I can see), she loves recess and looks forward to "popcorn and movie" day once a week. Then she comes home and makes up for it with incessant questions about Venus Flytraps and existential ideas about life being a dream instead of reality. Sure wish she could get some of that at preschool!

Anyone else notice this kind of acceptance/compliance in their DD? I'm worried this will be a trend throughout her school years, then when she hits a challenge in an AP high school course, she won't know how to handle it....

There are still a lot of personality differences within each gender. I was the compliant child, but DD8 is definitely not. She quit complying at the end of Kindergarten, missed a lot of recess in 1st for not doing her work (which I was unaware of until later), and in 2nd has managed a compromise of doing the absolute minimum so that the teacher can put a grade in the grade book. The problem with the non-compliant child is the school comes back with "she won't even do X so we don't have to do anything else for her". Her teacher thinks that she should take some initiative to challenge herself in her work. At school she doesn't act out or complain, which may be typical of girls, but she doesn't want to do the useless work and the teachers aren�t interested in helping her. If she were more compliant, the teachers might have a more favorable opinion of her, which could be beneficial.

I think a lot of kids are quietly miserable since they don�t know what to ask - they just know they're miserable - which is why advocating for them is so important.