Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High GAI, low working memory-please help interpret

Hello! This is my first venture into this forum.

My daughter's IQ was recently assessed using the WISC-IV and I don't really know what to make of the results.

Her WISC-IV results are as follows:

Verbal Comprehension: 140
Perceptual reasoning: 141
Working Memory: 88
Processing speed: 109
FSIQ: 130
GAI: 150

I have all the subtest results as well. Basically, the way I understand it is that she is a very bright girl but her low working memory (her digit span score was 7) may pose a challenge in meeting her educational needs.

Does this big "split" have larger implications that I should investigate (learning disability?). Should I advocate to get her into the gifted program at her school? I've broached the subject and recieved a lukewarm response... a stark contrast from the enthusiasm of the psychologist who did the test. I'm afraid I am now very confused as to what I should be doing for her.

Thanks!

How old is your daughter?

My son is 13 and had very similar numbers to your daughter's when he was tested at 9 years old. The VCI and PRI are clearly very gifted scores. How much the split means depends on what you observe in real life.

We were warned about the possibility of ADD based on DS's low WM, but to make that diagnosis there really have to be real life symptoms. Our son is distractable, forgetful, and slow to do things that don't interest him. But none of these things were significant enough to interfere with his learning, school performance, or overall happiness. Just frustrating. Over the last year, he has matured a bunch and the problems have minimized and I am really glad we didn't jump on the diagnosis. In the end, we believe that he was not engaged by the WISC WM task. He later took the SB5 and got 99.9 percentile on that WM task, a task that was so engaging to him he talked about it all the way home.

Do you see signs of ADD or other learning problems in you DD's everyday life?

OTOH, my DS7 has a WM of about 120 if memory serves (?), a PS of 109, and a GAI of 150+. Combined all that with his personality and age, and it means he is a "deep but not fast" kid. I see it every day. Everything takes longer and he needs to write things down and look at them because he can't keep them in his mind without losing where he is. Everything takes longer than it seems like it should.

I think his scores are accurate on WM and PS--if not too high!--and I can clearly see that they constitute a stumbling block for him. It's minor because we're homeschooling and I can adapt his schoolwork to play to his strengths and strengthen his weaknesses. He's definitely a lot better this year than he was last. But mental math isn't easy for him.

I guess my big question is do you see memory issues with your child? Do you think the scores make sense based on what you know of your daughter?

Mistakes do happen! A test is just a snapshot of one day, not the be-all end-all of defining your child. if it doesn't feel right, then the scores may not be right.

But if the scores make sense to you, feel explanatory to you, then I think you probably want to take that into account as you plan for your DD's education.

The WMI is comparatively low, but isn't it still within the normal range?

I'm not sure that it's necessarily a problem. The 130 FSIQ should qualify her for most GT programs.

I agree that it's not necessarily a problem, but if the score explains problematic behavior (as it did with us), then it's something to consider. Adaptations may be useful.

But only if it fits with what you see in your child.

Sometimes schools will only look at the full scale score. If your dd's is 130, they may consider that borderline or in some areas, altogether too low. The full scale doesn't tell the full story though, and you should definitely bring up those scores in the 140's.

good luck-

Thanks all for the feedback! Good info!

I do think these results fit with the overall behavior of my daughter - Kriston's description of "deep but not fast" fits very well. I think she does have memory issues, particularly when she is not thoroughly engaged. As for her age, she just turned 8.

The test anxiety issue is an interesting one - she is a perfectionist and a "pleaser", so I can see how this might have affected the test results. My understanding is that she cannot be validly re-tested with the WISC for another year, but it would be interesting to see what another assessment shows. I also did not tell her its a test - she thought she was going to play games with "someone who likes to learn how kids learn".

I do not have achievement test data. I'm trying to decide if and how to pursue. The GT program here requires an additional battery of tests including the Terra Nova, the Torrance Test of Creativity, and the Stages-2 K-3 Reasoning subtest. Additionally, there is a teacher questionnaire to identify gifted behaviors.

My quandary at this point is the balance between her self image and the stretching of her abilities (a common concern, I'm gleaning)! She has already identified herself as "not a smart kid" because she is not a part of the gifted program. In order to pursue this, she would need to take these other tests- administered by the teacher she knows to be in charge of the GT program. If she takes these tests and does not qualify, it will be devastating.

If it were possible, I would be glad to have the tests administered by an independent party (so she won't make the connection). I don't mean to express lack of confidence in her ability - only in the tests being an accurate reflection of her ability. For example, with the Torrance, I know she is so detail oriented that she is not likely to score well because time management is not her forte!

She also appears to be both frustrated and underchallenged in the classroom. The things they are doing really emphasize her weaknesses (a lot of mental math). I would love to homeschool her, but it is fiscally impossible. I do think she would benefit from the extra stimulation of the GT program but am concerned about her relative weakness in working memory and processing speed leading to more frustration for her.

So the central question is: do I pursue the additional testing at GT program, or is it best to just continue to provide as much enrichment out of the classroom as possible?

Sorry for the long post!

THanks again for all the support!

Oh man that is so hard. I guess if it were me I would pursue the testing and at the end regardless of what happens put her into a different setting either the GT program, if you think it is a good fit, or mabe a different school's GT program or a different school with independent study. I would just make sure she understands that she is very smart and that something is going to change for her so she is not so unhappy and stuck in a situation that is affecting her self esteem.

If you do the testing I would tell her she did very well and that you are looking into a few different options to help her find a better fit. (regardless of the results). It sounds like where she is at now is not going to work with or with out the testing.

I would stress that for the testing, it's not how well you did. These tests are designed to find out how she learns and what she knows in the case of achievement testing. I think kids associate testing w/ passing or failing.