Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Is my 2 year old gifted?

Okay I posted to another topic and thought I would direct this question to our milestone discussion...

My DH and I were discussing milestones and the boards comments and he questioned something since we live in the 'best' school district and it appears that the majority of the students fit into the gifted side at that school district. Again we are on the outside looking in and when our DD goes to school we might find we inflated that by these facts: most all the students have tutoring sessions after school every week and almost all the students are in at least one honor's class. We also know that around 25% of the Kindergarten kids come to school knowing how to read.

So the question from my DH is this: Is the milestones realistic or perhaps you are finding that today's society is introducing more to their children at an earlier age? For instance, the colors, some one argued that they typically learn them at 3 b/c that is when they typically start preschool. Around here they start typically around 2. And the preschools tell you with no uncertain terms (even the church social ones) that they view their job as prep for Kindergarten since the kinder kids are required to know how to do powerpoint presentations by the time they finish K. I read the Ruf Kinder requirements in her appendix and did not see that referenced. So maybe the milestones are old research and new studies need to be done or we (my DH and I) have a warped sense of it all b/c of where we live?

Do you have a lot of GT kids in your area? The "best" school district doesn't necessarily equal lots of GT kids--our district is supposed to be the best in the surrounding areas at least, and GT kids are leaving it in droves! But if there are lots of GT kids in the area, then it could be that your perspective is skewed upward. Do you have a large university professor population or a research lab around? It might just be that you're used to GT families.

It is certainly possible to hothouse kids to meet milestones earlier. It's just not recommended! Who cares if a 2yo knows 1 color or 30, really? Does it matter? Are we worried that the child won't learn colors eventually? If the child isn't into it, then why push on something so silly? I think that's just done for the bragging rights--or at my most charitable, out of a weird fear that the child is already behind in some imaginary race; ick! I think it's ridiculous.

And I definitely don't think that all that hothousing means that the books should be changed. Why make it worse?

It does, however, make a pretty good case for keeping the milestone checklists a secret from parents... :p

Okay first of all I will answer your question about the area I live in: yes we have a large university professor population and research lab as well. In fact, we have the largest University in the country (The last time I checked) and a lot of those professors live with their families in our district.

As for the hothouse comment ... ???? Are you accusing me of hothousing? I am just amazed by the comment back to my post. I will set the record straight right now if in fact that was your approach. I have never hothoused my child. I am a huge believer in learning through play and our DD guides us not the other way around. Now if you are making assumptions that the result of our district is hothousing, it is possible sure but I do not believe the information I post was enough to conclude this assumption. As for the comments about the colors I referred to another persons post stating that 3 is around the age colors are focused on since most kids start preschool during that time. So drawing from that logic I stated preschool typically starts around 2 here. Again the need to jump to hothouse escapes me.

I was simply giving an argument my DH brought up that given the area we live in gives us a different view.

Katelyn's Mom, I'm pretty near certain that Kriston was not accusing you of hothousing. I think she was just talking about it in a hypothetical sense.

I think the topic came up because you mentioned things like the prevalence of after-school tutoring and preschools prepping kids to do powerpoint. Some people think of these kinds of things as hothousing.

As for your DH's question, I think the culture around us definitely affects our perceptions of our kids' abilities.

NO! I didn't mean that you were hothousing! Not at all. Sorry for the miscommunication!

I was responding to your statement about tutoring sessions being common in your area and to this:


This (and the powerpoint in K) said to me IMHO that you're looking at people who are working hard to hurry their kids along.

I just meant that if society is pushing kids along in high-pressure ways, then that doesn't mean that the milestones should be moved forward. If a parents spends all day grilling a kid on colors, then the child will probably learn colors early. But at what expense? There's lots of other things the child won't learn and the child will probably end up with a bad attitude about learning to boot.

I was just trying to answer your question with my take on it. Nothing inflammatory! Honest!

P.S. Thanks for helping me out there, Cathy.

No problema!

No prob Kriston ... I was just taken back and just the thought of anyone thinking I would hothouse sends chills up my spine.

For the powerpoint we were taken back when I was informed of this by the director of a church preschool who happens to be the previous director of this school district's preschool. It has been a topic of conversation among friends (that do not live in the district) and I for a while now. I guess I myself have not made that jump to hothouse but you have a point. So perhaps the argument would be that there probably isn't that many gifted kids, just pressured students that have to be tutored to keep up. It is just matter of fact around here that during the afternoon the Barnes and Nobles as well as a few other stores are taken over by tutors to work with groups of students.

But then I think about the Montessori schools and how toddlers typically are more advance through these programs. Would those be considered hothouse? I don't think so. (Just giving argument to both sides). A lot of these kids went to Montessori preschool to be prepped for the Kindergarten.

I don't think there's anything wrong with exposing kids to things or giving them opportunities to learn. My kids went to a private preschool which offered pullout reading, math, and Spanish programs for an extra fee. They were ability grouped four kids to a teacher. These were great for my kids who were bored in the regular classes. Was that hothousing? I'm sure some people would see it that way.

IMHO, child-led learning is never hothousing. Period. Just by definition, if the child wants to learn it, it's not hothousing.

Since Montessori is mostly child-led (assuming it is done correctly)--with just some minor pressure on the child to do some work of some sort--it isn't hothousing. The whole idea is to offer the child materials that are appealing and meet the child where s/he is at the time.

Often programs that let children take the lead wind up with more advanced students than average coming out the other end. I suspect that's why homeschooled kids tend to score quite well on standardized tests and such: they learn at their own pace, and often that pace is faster than the one that adults might set for them.

None of that is hothousing in any sense that I can see!

Kids having to know Powerpoint by age 6? Well, I'd say they're on shakier ground there! I've never heard of such a thing. I feel very confident in saying that is NOT the norm!

As for your specific geographic area (and I'm just talking completely out of my hat!), I suspect you have a higher-than-average population of GT kids around because of the university (and maybe other factors, too) combined with a higher-than-average pressure situation.

How much higher the pressure, I can't say. It may be just a tad. But yours doesn't sound like most of the pre-K stories I've heard. I have the impression that most places start honest-to-goodness pre-K programs in earnest at age 3, not age 2. (Our pre-K has a 1-half-day class for 2.5yos. My mom's pre-K started at age 3. I think most of the kids discussed on this forum--with some notable exceptions--started pre-K at 3 or later, assuming they're not starting early because of the HG+ thing.) And most places have pretty low expectations for kindergarten readiness. recognizing some letters, writing a name, following directions, etc.

So that combo of more GT people and more pre-K prep is almost certainly going to skew your area's population early on milestones, and you're going to think that the books are way too low. But you're in an isolated pocket, in effect missing a large segment of the population.

Remember that a 115 IQ is going to be 1 whole standard deviation above the mean, and your area may very well have an average IQ even higher than that if there are lots of GT families around. Add a bit of pre-K prep to the mix, and your GT 2yo starts to look quite average in comparison.

Calling it hothousing may have been presumptuous of me, but I will stand by the notion that what's going on in your area is higher-pressure than normal. It's common in NYC and parts of Chicago. Maybe also in other big cities with wealthy populations and private school slots to compete for? But from what I've seen and heard, I don't think it's standard practice in most of the rest of the country.

FWIW (not much!)