Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Need advice about perfectionism

It was recommended to us that we use a method called practice practicing. Basically what this means is I give DS something to do, tell him it's just practice and in the trash it goes when he's done. We check the answers and occasionally say "oh look, you misses one" and in the trash it goes.

Sounds kind of odd, but it has worked really well for us. The second thing is to play games of chance where winning and losing are completely random. This teaches them that not everything in life has to be or can be controlled.

Dear Amy,

I hope your meeting went well, and that you are feeling better about things. I have been thinking about you a great deal--what a difficult situation. I hope you don't mind me chiming in late here.

I don't think you're being a wimp about your circumstances; you are trying in good faith to balance the good of the many and the good of the one (if I may be allowed to go all Star-Trekky for a moment). I think that parents find themselves in these kinds of dilemmas occasionally, and it can be very hard to decide what to do. Can I offer an example from my past, with the understanding that its relevance is likely only tangential, and that I am not in any way trying to tell you what to do? We can only look at things through the lens of our own experience--this is just a perspective through my own lens.

I went to a small rural K-12 school, whose enrollment meant that it was constantly teetering on the edge of closure. My parents (who were the only people in the village, other than the teachers, who had university degrees) spent countless hours of their lives lobbying the county and the province to keep the place open; mom was president of the Home and School (like your PTA) and dad was chair of the School Board for all the years we were there. All three of us tested gifted; I was accelerated once (the school wanted to do it again, but the second skip would have put me in a class with my sister, so my parents said no). My brother, who tested in the EG range, also had dyslexia and a severe, untreatable hearing impairment, so the teachers did not believe the test scores, which didn't mesh too well with what he was doing in school (they spent the rest of his years at school trying to figure out how he could possibly have cheated on the IQ test--the mind boggles). All three of us, but particularly my brother, were miserable at school for various reasons, but our parents were not willing to take us out of our school and try some other options; they simply had too much of themselves and their concern for the community at large vested in the school for our leaving to be on the table as a permissible choice.

So, we weren't very happy, but we all survived; my sister and I went on to become university professors, my brother is self-employed, doing something he's reasonably good at but doesn't like very much--but we all still wish, in varying degrees, that maybe we could at least have tried something different; my brother especially needed my parents to put his complex needs (which, to be fair, they may not have understood very well) before their activism on behalf of the school. I am not at all saying that your situation is identical, or even very like, mine, but I do think that in general terms there comes a time when the good of the one, in whatever way that may be achieved, supersedes the good of the many, especially when the one is young and vulnerable. I also believe, again in general terms, that some of these kinds of decisions have long-term ramifications.

I hope that I haven't said too much and that none of what I did say has come out wrong; I hope, too, that you are able to work something out with a grade skip with your school.

Best wishes,
minnie

My ds8 is in 3rd; he had this real rough spot at the beginning where they were reviewing math facts and 2nd grade or earlier concepts. It was pretty discouraging for him; he wouldn't do the work, or it would take forever and be very frustrating to all involved.
He finally came up with some pretty funny ways of 'showing' his work on the simpler stuff. At last they are hitting some new areas, probability, for instance and he is cruising along, although in my opinion not being stretched. (still waiting on some more math testing for additional differentiation for him)
He brought home a fairly tricky 6 page worksheet on probability and had gotten the whole thing correct.

One way he has of spicing things up is to create a code for parts of what he will be writing, like a head in a circle for 1/4, and a different shape or picture in a circle for 1/2. Then he will use these new symbols when writing 5 1/4 or whatever. He gives the teacher a key at the top of his paper...
fwiw.

I agree! Welcome Minnie!
When my husband and I were first starting to date, we were delighted to find that we had both gone to public school, had both gone on to college, resenting the kids who were better prepared by their private school educations, and both 'Belived in Public Education.' Turned out that Public Education didn't 'believe' in us! I am quite sure that some of my affection for public education comes from them doing such a good job of convincing me that I was to blame for my own unhappiness there, and not them. To that extent, we did pass our old hurts along to our son. Part of the reason I was willing to put him into daycare at 7 weeks of age is that I felt that I was tainted in some way, and that keeping him with NDs for part of each day would ameliorate my tainted influence, and help him fit in better. Actually it made him less tolerant of ND kids for a long time. ((shrug))

We live and learn!
Grinity

Ugh! I thought I had posted my response last night but somehow it must have gotten lost in cyberspace. I'll try to recreate it now.

First, thank you, minnie, for sharing your story. I appreciate your own experience and how that has influenced you. And thank you to everyone else, as well.

We had the meeting last week. I met with the counselor the first day and then they called me in for a meeting with the principal, the teacher, and the counselor on Thursday. They were very polite and they listened to me, but I don't think there is anything that I could have said that day that would have changed their minds that it's too soon to accelerate DD in some way. I left frustrated, and the more I think about it I'm even more frustrated.

Basically the feeling from the principal was that it's too soon to really evaluate anything. She said that 9 weeks is not enough time to judge how the 1st grade class is going to be. She said that they have primarily been doing review of last year and the real instruction should start now. Especially for a new school, 9 weeks, in her opinion, was just not much time.

I said that 9 weeks may not seem long to an adult but to a child who is frustrated about the work she's doing then 9 weeks is long. She said that's where I need to give DD some perspective. That was their solution for the time being and we'll check back in 3 weeks. Of course we only have 3 weeks until we're out for Thanksgiving and then another 3 weeks until winter break.

The teacher seemed defensive about what's going on in the classroom. She pointed out all of the "exciting" things that they have started doing. She also pointed out that there are some things that DD needs to work on. Her report card came home that afternoon and I think she actually got all "Es" in LA, so I'm not sure what the specific things are that she needs to work on. I guess maybe they are talking about her capitalizing her sentences correctly and using more "flowery" language when she writes. DD is very matter of fact in her writing; to me this doesn't mean she's not gifted. Part of it could be that she's just not interested in the work she's doing so she rushes through it. I just don't know.

I kept stressing that this wasn't about what my husband and I felt like she should be learning but it was about the fact that DD is asking almost daily now to be homeschooled because I know what she knows and doesn't already know and that she's tired of learning what she already knows. They again said that this is where I need to give her some "perspective."

I'd like to pursue some achievement testing at this point but DH thinks we should wait until the spring because of financial reasons. I'm the type who wants answers now. He doesn't think that the testing would provide us many answers. I disagree. This morning she kept saying that she didn't want to go to school and that her stomach hurt. DH thinks she was just tired, and she could be, but I know that she wouldn't have acted that way last year. Is it common for 1st graders to already dislike school? It seems so out of character for my DD, and it really bothers me.

So that's our update. I guess we're waiting and hoping that things get better. On another note, my free copy of A Nation Deceived arrived the afternoon of my meeting. Too bad I didn't have it before! For anyone who doesn't have a copy yet, you can request it on their website. Just google it and you'll find it easily. It takes a little while to receive it but it's worth having a bound copy instead of just their pdf version.

I agree that 9 weeks is a long time to a child, especially a very young one. I am not sure how common this is across all groups of kids, but my son did start to have problems in first with not liking the teacher, he didn't have many friends (according to his count, zero) he did ask about homeschooling as well, although not every day.
I don't think his first grade teacher was a good fit; the teacher said lots of kids in 1st don't really make friends until later years (2nd, 3rd). I thought at the time that was ok information, but my son was still sad and not fitting in.
Things were better in 2nd and part of the reason was that I told him the school was going to do an assessment to see if he could take an extra class (early years gt program in our county). He was really excited about that and hung in there in expectation of it working out; it was a little bit of a hair splitter but he got in during the last few weeks of school and was really relieved and happy. He is doing well with the program this year, 3rd, he is excited about school again. Plus his regular classroom teacher is turning out to be a gem.

Your child might be more in need of greater changes faster, however - my ds' story is just one. Things are working out ok for this semester, we are seeing how things go.
I don't think the stomachaches and the questions about homeschooling are entirely normal..

Also, someone else on the board might have good advice on which sorts of tests to look at having done - there are so many it is pretty confusing to me. So far we have just gone with what our school normally does.

Very best of luck for you and your dd!

Amy,
Thanks for the update. My daughter's parent teacher conference is coming up in a few weeks so it's helpful to hear about your experience. I've been frustrated that my daughter's a quarter of the way through 1st grade and there's been little challenging work. We've been getting some use out of her homework by copying it for her 4.5 year old sister to use.

Luckily our district has a gifted school that starts in 3rd grade. All the 3rd graders are taking achievement tests this week. The 2nd graders in the Primary Talent Pool are taking it as well for selection to the gifted school. There was an on-line application for the testing so I filled it out for my daughter to take it as a first grader.

I don't think the school would have supported her doing the out of level achievement test but the district approved it. I'm crossing my fingers that she does well enough for them to take notice and consider having her skip 2nd grade and go to the Gifted school for 3rd grade next year. If not, we'll do private testing and try to advocate via that route. At least I know she's going to be doing some challenging work this week with the out of level achievement testing.

There is a book called "Developing Math Talent" and it describes a process call Diagnostic Pretest and Prescriptive Instruction. I've been using this method for math and also reading/language arts. I ordered the Kaplan Stanford 10 workbook for the Diagnostic Pretesting.

I hope some of this is helpful in looking at options that are outside the box. The recommendation that you give your daughter perspective about learning what she already knows bugs me. I'm going to put some thought into how I'll respond if I'm told that at the conference.

Thanks again for the thought provoking thread.

Hello,

Just wanted to chime in with our experience. I hope this helps. For us first grade was a disaster. The teacher just did not get our DD. She tried to push her into staying within the 1st grade curriculum - reading and all. My dd at that point was reading at a fourth to fifth grade level fwiw I don't put much stock in the levels. We tried talking to the teacher. We brought in work she did in Kindergarten, had our DD write summaries of books but nothing got through. We finally had a meeting with the principal, gt coordinator, and the teacher. It helped a bit but really nothing changed except they started letting dd read whatever she wanted. DD's work and attitude suffered it was awful. All we did was fight. We got so discouraged we looked at private school and that was why we did the WISC IV. Those results were very helpful during the conference.

Now fast forward to 2nd Grade. We have a fabulous teacher and all is well. DD accepts her extra work now and has a fabulous attitude. She is being somewhat challenged but still constrained by the system. She is happy now though and that is what matters most.

If you think you want to keep your daughter in this school her is what I would do:

My advice would be to request a meeting with the teacher, the gt coordinator(if one exists), the principal and the counselor. Bring in whatever material you have and treat the school as your partner. Do not be confrontational they'll just get defensive. We went that route and then spent a couple of months repairing the damage. Also don't wait until you are furious again we did and it was a disaster. Our DD picked up on all the anger and frustration. Get everyone in the same room and focus the discussion on your child. How can we work within the curriculum to challenge and keep our kid happy? What resources are available? What will happen next year, the year after? After the meeting follow up with the principal to see if he/she has stayed on top of the situation. Ask if they'll take suggestions for teachers for 2nd grade. If they do ask for a teacher with many years of experience. Someone who has a lot of perspective but is still energetic and motivated. Such a person is more likely to recognize your DD's abilities and cater to them.

Your dd should not have to spin her wheels for a year. Talk to other parents in the class, maybe start a book club or science club.

Also take a deep breath. As our DD's beloved kindy teacher told us, "Oh kids like her don't learn anything in first grade. It's all about socialization for her. Things will get better"

Amy,

I'm sorry I didn't see your updated post about the meeting. As I said we had very similar issues with my dd but it was really a teacher issue not a school or kid issue. My dd is very happy now in 2nd grade.

Inky,

Same to you as well. Some of the things we tried with my dd were fun enriching activities. She was resistant to any extra work and we finally had to just back off or risk damaging her love of learning. We did science projects, art museum activities and I eventually founda series of books she absolutely loves. We also bought some computer games. I recommend Fritz and Chester learn to play chess,Brain Games - word puzzles and ISpy games.

It breaks my heart to hear so many similar stories to ours. 1st grade was so awful for us.

lanfan,
Thanks for the suggestions. DD4.5's preschool teacher gave me a Mindware catalogue with lots of great puzzles and games:
www.mindwareonline.com
I sent copies to the grandparents for Christmas gift ideas. I also picked up a game at Target called Castle Logix made by Smart Games. It was a hit.

This discussion has triggered me to rethink my plans for DD4.5. I may look at having her do a compressed Kindergarten year at a private school from Jan-May in order to have her start 1st grade in the fall. This may alleviate some of the problems we're having with our older daughter.