Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WPPSI-III hit ceiling, retest? Help, please

Ok, here were ds's ceiling scores (from what I understand), for comparison:

Information: scaled score 16, age equivalent >7.2, percentile 98
Vocabulary: 17, >7.2, 99
Comprehension: 18, >7.2, 99.6
Matrix Reasoning: 18, >7.2, 99.6
Picture Concepts: 19, >7.2, 99.9
Symbol Search: 17, >7.2, 99

Age 5y5m.

I'll look back and analyze later ... Someone is waiting for me to get the Wii ready for him.

Thanks ACS and Dottie, that's what I originally thought. On WISC IV 19 is ceiling for a 7yo. 17,18 are not maxed out.

Good luck to all you WPPSI people. Although DD6 took the WPPSI. Huh, I'll have to take a look because I thought 19 was a hard ceiling on that as well.........

So confused..............

After reading all this, I'm confused as well! His tester said those were "ceilings," but I don't really know if they were if it isn't a 19. But she definitely called the 17s and 18s (and that 16) ceilings, and said that for older children they can "ceiling" at a lower number.

I *think* that for ds (and many HG+ kids taking the WPPSI in general), it was a combo of Dottie's definitions 2-4.

Also soo confused ...

What I do know for sure: We all have very bright children.

I don't know if we're helping you at all, Niki!

Welcome Niki,

Those are wonderful scores unfortunately from what I have seen on this board they won't get you into Davidson.

We didn't get any age equivalents with the scores. First I was jealous when I read the other posts but looking at the >7:2 and 7:2 it would only confuse me.

The way I see >7:2 is the fact that they don't have samples going beyond 7:3. All they can tell you is that your child did better than 7:2 but that's about it. They cannot compare it to a higher age simply because they don't have data for let's say 8:0. I could see where 16 would mean the child did better than 7:2 but where you could still earn higher score. For example I know for sure that you can do better than 17 on both Matrix Reasoning and Picture Concepts, since my son had higher scores at the age 5:3.

Questions for Debbie. So what's the age when you can no longer hit 19 on WPPSI-III? We may have DS4 tested next year and I would hate to run into low ceilings problems. It's unlikely but I would like to avoid it anyway.

If I remember it correctly the low ceilings is one of the reasons why not to use WPSSI and wait till the child is 6. I would think the norms for 5 yr old on WPPSI are as good as SB-V (correct me if I am wrong) but the possible low ceilings (for child close to 6) and higher requirements make it difficult to make Davidson cutoff.

Thank you, everybody for the warm and "brainy" welcome.
It is Ok LMOM. The initial testing was done just for the
purpose of the local gifted school. I was just wondering
how do the tests work. And had not that big concern for
Davidson anyway. Nothing was expected, so no sorry feelings.
The tests are little confusing, now comparing other scores with
different ceilings at different age level. But that is ok,
it was just puzzling me, that is all.
My main concern is,that I don't miss anything or do something
wrong with the way my son is growing. My family and everybody
is reacting with the results as "Wow, this is great." But I am
almost overwhelmed with the added responsibility. We are just
a regular family, no scholars or anything in that league. So far he has learned everything sort of by him self, we are looking up answers to his questions constantly. But I don't know if I am doing enough for him. If you understand what I mean.
The psychologist told me, that she does not think that public
gifted would be a good fit, since it would be too slow for him.
Somebody also suggested (sorry I don't know all your names yet)
to skip into the first grade, and I will have to look into it.
My DS has a very strong OE, he does not have a problem to sit still, but all the feelings and senses are just so multiplied,
that I am afraid that he will have a hard time adjusting to
classroom and other children. I don't know if it makes any difference going into K vs. 1st, as far as social issues go.
Anyway, thank you so much.

IF we would decide to test again further along, what would be the
best way to go, then?

Oh, do we know what you mean! <reassuring smile> I think most of us with HG+ kids (and probably even a lot of parents of MG and GT kids [the ones too bright for regular schoolwork, but not making the 130 cut for GT programs]) know the feeling of panic that you're describing. I sure felt it!

On the bright side, the fear of messing up does subside as you learn more about GTness and find solutions to the problems you face. It crops up again at decision-making times, but it tends to go away more quickly each time because you learn that kids are resiliant, even in lousy situations (though that's NOT a reason to leave the kids IN those lousy situations any longer than absolutely necessary!), and that you can always change what you're doing because there are very, very few educational decisions that are irreversible.

So, in short, you've come to the right place, and it will all work out. Don't stress yourself out any more than you absolutely must. (It's normal, but the sooner you get past it, the better off you are. ) After all, worrying just for the sake of worrying won't help your son. And the sooner you get through the worry stage, the sooner you move into the taking action stage. That's where you want to be!

As for choosing to test...If there's no big rush, I'd wait until age 6 at least (maybe 6.5) and give him the WISC, unless there's some driving reason that you think the SB-V is a better fit. Supposedly Visual-Spatial learners do better on the SB-V than they do on the WISC, but that didn't hold true for my son, who appears to be VS. He's one of the few kids we discuss regularly here who took both tests--we had a bad test fit with the SB-V and bad test day due to lack of sleep, so we retested a few months later on the WISC--and he did better on the WISC. The results on the SB-V just didn't ring true with what we saw. The WISC made a lot more sense in relation to the total picture. I have a much better grasp of his strengths and his weaknesses after the WISC.

IM(not so)HO: I'd say you should give it 1.5-2 years if there's no pressing reason to test before that, and then get both the WISC and an achievement test like the Woodcock-Johnson. Then go into the testing with questions you'd like to have answered. Mine were "Is he qualified to apply for DYS?" and "What can we find out about how he learns?"

In the meantime, keep doing what you're doing: follow where your child leads you, look up the answers to the questions you don't already know the answers to, provide challenge wherever possible, encourage friendships with true peers (who may be a couple years older than your child), and keep your eyes peeled for good opportunities for your son.

You're doing fine!

You'll come to love that expertise with the numbers though, Niki! I really think we all ought to be paying Dottie for her help. Is there anyone on here who hasn't been helped by Dottie's test interpretations?

I can't imagine!

Would 4 points of headroom really mean 4 more questions? I think that on the WPPSI you can get 0,1 or 2 points on each question. So maybe that means there were only two more questions.

Kriston, thank you. Yes, you are absolutely right about everything.
I will get over the worry part soon, I hope. And yes, there is no rush, at all. I will keep doing, what we are doing, homeschooling-unschooling for the rest of PK4. And will see where we will end up at the end of the year. I really appreciate your encouragement.



Dottie, you are fantastic with the numbers. That makes a lot of sense with the raw score comparison. Thank you so much for the explanation. I will rest the ceiling issue to rest now.

Cathy and Dottie,
I would not be at all surprised that my DS missed those easy on the beginning questions. If something is very trivial, he thinks that there is something he is missing and it totally throws him off. The tester that he did not answer for example: what are shoes. If she would have asked him what is esophagus or echolocation, he would be more comfortable with that.
Wink wink