Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Not trying

I agree with Kriston about personality playing a role in perfectionism. My friend has a ND daughter in 3rd grade who is having a really rough time at school because she's so hard on herself when she gets anything wrong - and of course she will since she's appropriately challenged! She's also hard on herself with sports, her appearance, etc.. But the school perfectionism is getting better with warm, understanding teachers. I think one main issue with our perfectionistic GT kids is they sometimes don't get to experience the fact that things turn out okay in the end, mistakes and all... An analogy I'm thinking of is someone with a specific fear, say of dogs. The only real way to get over that is to spend some time with dogs and challenge the fear, KWIM?

Don't read Josh Shaine about underachievement. He's kind of 'back in the '60s' on that topic. Now - if you can find a Shaine article about 'Non-Linear Thinkers' than post it here because it's great stuff. IF only he would get serious and write down the amazing things I hear him lecture about. ((Humor Alert))

Read Sylvia Rimm on underachievement. She tends to put a lot of it on the parent's laps, and then quietly say, 'well for gifted kids it just comes from being unaccomidated' but she's on the right track.

Getting off soapbox,
Grinity

Go BK! Step by step you'll get there. 'Hard is Good!'
In the begining you can 'cheat' by guiding them through the process of finding something interesting to study, as a case study in problem solving. You might like Susan Wienbrenner's teaching gifted children in the regular classroom, because it teaches a process for finding interesting problems. Or you can all leaf through the cataloge of www.teach12.com for topics of interest. (They may not be ready to get the info directly from the CDs and DVDs, but it may be just what you need to get excited about learning and stay one step ahead of them.)


Or you could take the opposite approach and sign them up for online Math, and let Aleks.com do the heavy lifting while you coach from the sidelines.

Eitherway, since you are as new to this as they are, the good news is that you can model the process of setting out on a journey and expecting bumps in the road, making course corrections on the way.

I heard somewhere that pilots are off course 90% of the time, but get there by making course corrections. Maybe a unit on Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families is a good place to start. ((LOL - don't get me started))

Then there is the advice from Joseph Campbell "Follow you bliss" - now that you've taken the time to remember that you never got excited by school, see if you can remember what did interest you. Due to genetics, there is a pretty good chance that if you enjoyed a topic, your kids will too. ((Hint: Lots of kids love things that go 'Boom' - as in Myth Busters, or programs from the nearest Universities' Chemistry Department))

Yippee!
Grinity

I do think that personality has a role in this, but I think that our personalities get shaped by our environments to some degree. An example from Dr. Rimm:


I saw a sweet little two year old yesterday, and heard myself say:"What a beautiful little girl you are!"

I was mortified. I am committed to praising character traits a person can develop, rather than 'facts' that a people just happens to be, such as smart, pretty. Not yesterday. Can you imagine how many times your friends ND daughter has heard, "What a pretty little girl you are" from well meaning strangers like me in her life time?

Just a thought - I could be totally off, LOL, (It happens)
Grinity

Good point, Grinity. I do try to refrain from using the Sm... word too much with DS. For some reason, I don't hold back from calling him cute - I never really thought about it before. And I mean cute from a purely physical standpoint! But there's probably a gender issue at play - he doesn't really care that much about being cute/handsome/whatever. Physical appearance is more integrated with girls' self-worth due to cultural pressure so you have to fight against that...

But in your case, the little girl's appearance is all you had to go by -- I don't think it's wrong to complement someone's appearance (including kids) if it comes from the heart and it's not overkill. It would be different if the adults she knew in her life only praised her for inborn traits rather than encouraging her to strive for being kind, hard-working, etc.

Oh I agree, Grin. I didn't mean to suggest that it's all personality. Only that I KNOW my son is being challenged--I'm right there! But he's still having some wiggy, perfectionist moments. I think some of that is just how he's wired. He likes things just so and always has.

I think back to when he was not even two and would line all his Hot Wheels cars up PERFECTLY. If we moved one a fraction of an inch, he'd cry out in frustration and HAVE to fix it. So some of this was there long before school challenge was ever an issue.

I make an effort to tell my kids that it's okay to not do well at something or even bomb at it. Some things are important, some aren't, and I try to teach them how to pick what's important and put their best effort into it.

Val

I could have said, "Aren't you well groomed!"
"Didn't you choose a nice dress?"


I'm going to try that next time - LOL!

I very consciously try to avoid the S word and focus on how well they tried at something. No spectacular results yet, but perhaps eventually.

Oh Mythbusters... I generally refer to it as "that dozey bloke's show", which doesn't put DH off at all. I just can't cope with how long it has to take and all the gratuitous blowing up. DS6 seems already to have a bit of a preference - he's asked us to tape the news for him, though I haven't agreed. He particularly likes politics and wars. I'll give DH the mission of discovering some way of learning more about world affairs that is reasonably appropriate for a 6YO. I know he's interested, but the news can be a bit hard core and I'm just not ready for him to learn about suicide bombers and pedophiles, eg. I'll also follow up some of the excellent suggestions you all have made, including the on-line maths - I think both boys might like that.

We've been to the local library today and armed ourselves with a stack of readers. Look out world (one hopes). From a practical perspective, reading has to be the first cab off the rank. They've both become desperate for chapter books, and there are only so many hours a day I can devote to reading The Famous Five.

I was dwelling (compulsive dweller) on my last post, amazed at how such obvious conclusions took such a long time coming. And based on past experience I'm pretty sure I can count on having more of those moments. What a pitiful reflection.

I don't think I've said yet how much I like this site, but would like to say so now, and how much I appreciate everyone's responses.

Cheers
BK

Kriston,
I do know what you mean. For DS12 I have vivid memories of him sitting on my lap and encouraging me to make drawings of lines going various ways. I would 'indulge' him for some time, and then get tired, and try to encourage him to make his own drawings. Talk about Rampant Emotionalism. Total Tantrums. I figured that that was 'just who he was' and went back to drawing out his dreams for him. Then I showed him how to use MSPaint, and he would sit for hours and hours with the magnifying glass on, going dot by dot. All well and good, except, he wasn't learning how to control a crayon or pencil like other kids his age would have taken the same energy to tackle. Then we all puzzled over why he had such poor pencil control.

If I had it to do again, I would have 20% less sympathetic to how frustrated he felt to be a little boy in a big world with big dreams, and put up with 20% more tantrums, and modeled 100% confidence that he can choose what he focuses his mind on. Nowadays when he says: "I can't go to sleep, I'm too wound up" I confidently say - directing your mind is a habit, that always needs to be developed. You get to decide where your mind goes. Send your mind to the calm, ready for sleep place with me for one minute.

Honest. i read it in a book! (The Mind that Changes Itself)

Are these kids driven? Yes, like most kids but sometimes even moreso.
Do these kids have an early awareness of standards that other kids aren't even thinking about? Yes! Yes! Yes!
Can this cut short certian chances for normal development? It didi for my son in the areas of fine motor, jumping off high things, bike riding.
To Paraphrase Friedman, from Earth is Flat: We have to learn to use our Imaginations, and not let our imaginations run us!

My compromise is that we rename those 'pedal to the metal' moments as Intensity + Percosious Vision (I+PV???) instead of perfectionism. Defining difference is that it isn't that the child feels that they are worthless unless X is perfect. They just are bound and determined to have it like their vision. Both can look like R.E. but the underneath is different.

After all, a lot of writers say that gifted folks have the same % of perfectionism as everyone else - so I think we need a seperate concept that explains the mechanism for look-alike behavior in gifted folks. Part of it is the Ability/Vision Gap. Part of it is so many years without peers. KWIM?

I hope that helps....

Grinity