Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Need advice: parent co-op problem (long)

Friends,

DS7 is taking a living math class in a homeschooling co-op.*

(*For those not used to the lingo: "living math" = using hands-on manipulatives to figure out, say, an equation from actual use of "stuff" instead of being given the equation and being asked to solve for an answer; "co-op" = parent-taught classes in order to give kids classroom opportunities in limited doses that are (more or less) in line with their needs.)

I had to work to get him into the class because he's 7 and the age range is 9-12. She had lots of doubts, even though she has GT kids herself and knows the pain of the lack of fit. I have been worried that she's not going to be fair to him from the start.

I observed today, and truly, I felt like she was dismissing him completely.

He had things to say that were useful contributions, and he said them, but he's quiet and shy, and she didn't listen. At all! I had to say, "Hey, he said..." to get her to pay any attention to him. And after that, I'm not sure she thinks he even really said the things. She seemed to think it was all me. *sigh*

I promised the teacher that she would not have to slow the class down for him, and I still think that is vital. The overall class has to come first. But there's a difference between not slowing down the class and IGNORING a kid! Admittedly, he is not as fast at getting some things as the other kids are, but he is also getting certain things LONG before they do, or coming at problems from a different and interesting tack.

What I see is that he has a firm grasp of the concepts she is teaching coming into the class, but he does not yet have some of the language that she's looking for. But then he used the term "array," a common one in Singapore Math, and I passed it on to her. Her response: "But does anyone here know that term?" "YES!" I said! "My son, who said it!!!" Argh!

I was really frustrated. I'm SERIOUSLY considering just pulling him out. Why don't I?...

DS7 LOVES the class! He thinks it's great fun and says he's learning a lot. He's not frustrated or annoyed by her dismissal, even though he's aware of it. He doesn't mind. He just likes the math.

She says he can stay, but it's clear from her body language and lack of classroom attention that she's not wild about it and she's not going to help him at all. I'm pretty sure she has written him off completely. We discussed what to do--a friendly but charged discussion--and she kept stressing his age. "If he has 3 more years to be exposed to it," she said, "he'll get it fast like the other kids do." I wanted her to get past his age and think about how she would deal with a quiet, deep-but-not-fast 9yo, but she just refused to go there with me. As far as she's concerned, his age is the problem. I think she's not giving him a fair shake and isn't going to.

So, wise men and women, what do I do? Keep him in, as he would like, or pull him out?

BTW, I can be in the class with him part of the time--DS4 is in a different class that requires my attention, too, so I can't be there all the time--but I'm not sure if my presence is very helpful. I think I just frustrated her today, and I know she frustrated me! I was able to get more attention to DS7, at least. Maybe we just have our own little tutorial during the class? But then why be in the class at all?

Even when he made good points that other kids didn't get, she ignored them. When he spoke, she actually talked over him to the other kids. (And she didn't do that when the others talked. I watched for it!)

Clearly, she wants him out. Is it worth my ignoring that, as DS7 is? Or is this a harmful situation? I am firmly on the fence!

P.S. It's a 30-minute drive each way to get to a (less than) 2-hour class. That is a factor for me.

Wow. Tough call. Do you have to make a decision immediately? Or can you let your DS take the class until he stops enjoying it?

JB

This is a tricky situation, because you want your child to have respect for people who are teaching him, but obviously he knows what's going on. I think he's old enough that you can have a conversation with him about what's going on, but maybe put it in different terms so he doesn't feel like she's intentionally being rude to him, even though she appears to be. Maybe say something like, "your teacher isn't used to working with kids your age, and so she might treat you a little differently, even though she doesn't mean to." I would encourage him to speak loudly and clearly in class, then at least all the other kids will know he gets it, and perhaps he can win over the teacher through the other kids?

I can't see that it can hurt him too much if he likes it so much despite the mistreatment, and if you can explain that not all teachers are like this.

Is it only once a week? If he likes it and only has to tolerate the annoying teacher a couple hours a week, maybe just hang in there for a while and see how it goes. Is there any way you could just leave and make it a totally hands off thing or would that be too tough for him then? If he's not complaining, it might be more painful for you than him! Maybe try to talk to him about how he can make himself heard in class.

He can take it until he stops enjoying it. We have already paid for it, so we're not out anything but time (and my patience...) if we stay.



Actually, you hit on what has become the one thing I hope he gets from the class: speaking up for himself!

I think some of the problem is a personality thing. She is outgoing and loud and all-extrovert, all the time! So are her kids. DS7 is...not! I really think part of the problem is that he's an INTJ and she's not valuing what an INTJ can bring to the table. She sees GT as fast, not deep, and certainly not quiet! But when I tried to talk about the situation in terms of personality, she wrote it all off as his age: "When he's older, he'll say so when he doesn't understand." Well, maybe not... (BTW, as we were talking, she kept interrupting me, so perhaps that's more evidence of her not valuing the INTJ personality...)

It meets twice a month. We could just stop going and it's entirely possible that he wouldn't even notice, at least not until it had been a long while! And, yes, kimck, I am pretty sure it's MUCH more painful for me than for him. If he didn't like it so much, I would have said "We quit!" today! For sure!

Anyway, thanks for the things to think about. I'm digesting...

Oh - and I'm on board with kimck's idea about you leaving the room. I think kids sometimes need to be on their own to feel really free to speak up. Although i know nothing about the INTJ's m.o.! (sadly, ds and i are interrupters.)

That's what I was wondering. Maybe even if he doesn't learn much math, maybe he'll learn something about getting along with different personalities and making himself heard?

Given that follow up... I'd let him take the class for a little while longer. But that's me and you know there is a 50% chance that my DW would disagree

Sounds like he's getting something out of it (on multiple levels) and he enjoys it.

Mind you, you're 2 years ahead of us... so take it for what it's worth.

JB

I am out of the room about half the time because I have to be with DS4. The teacher is encouraging me to be in the room, though I can tell it's annoying her because I didn't let her just fly past stuff that didn't make sense, but asked questions (like about the array thing).

Now that I write that, I'm realizing that a big part of my problem is that I don't think she is actually a TEACHER who is TEACHING the class. I think she sees it as handing them stuff that they should already get. If there's a minor point they don't understand, she's willing to discuss it a second time. But come to think of it, I didn't see her really spending any energy on helping *anyone* over any hurdles to understanding.

Hmmm... That's a big realization for me. I'm not sure I want him in a class with someone who isn't actually teaching. No wonder the whole situation seemed so disturbing to me.

One 9yo has already dropped out--after 1 week! She said, "Well, he wasn't getting it anyway..." in the sense of "...so that's good that he's gone." I found that troubling. And she's doing the same thing with my son.

Hmmm...