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Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237436 03/27/17 12:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8 I indigo Member
indigo Member I Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8	EF is much more than organization; Organization is just one of eight key skills listed as being involved in executive function. This is what seemed to match, between your description and the EF article: Originally Posted by tillamook two big stressful assignments have derailed him... 1) act up and withdraw during class time... 2) increasingly angry... 3) "back against the wall" fear reaction. Get me out of here... 4) teachers called him on his recent behaviour... He was surprised and upset... 5) things are overwhelming... 6) Refusal to talk, refusal to go, refusal to discuss going in a different direction... 7) Also, this is a kid who has difficulty making decisions. In the list below, the numbers are added to correspond to the poster's list, above. Originally Posted by excerpts from EF issues, Understood.org[/i ]Having issues with executive functioning makes it difficult to: - Keep track of time 6- Make plans - Make sure work is finished on time - Multitask - Apply previously learned information to solve problems - Analyze ideas 6- Look for help or more information when it is needed ... Executive functioning issues can produce a wide range of symptoms. Depending on which skills your child struggles with the most, and the particular task she�s doing, you might see the following signs: - Finds it hard to figure out how to get started on a task - Can focus on small details or the overall picture, but not both at the same time - Has trouble figuring out how much time a task requires - Does things either quickly and messily or slowly and incompletely 4- Finds it hard to incorporate feedback into work or an activity - Sticks with a plan, even when it�s clear that the plan isn�t working - Has trouble paying attention and is easily distracted - Loses a train of thought when interrupted - Needs to be told the directions many times 7- Has trouble making decisions - Has a tough time switching gears from one activity to another 6- Doesn�t always have the words to explain something in detail - Needs help processing what something feels/sounds/looks like - Isn�t able to think about or do more than one thing at a time - Remembers information better using cues, abbreviations or acronyms ... There are several key skills involved in executive function. But your child may not struggle with all of them to the same degree. Executive skills include: 1- [i]Impulse control: This is your child�s ability to stop and think before acting. Impulsivity can be a symptom of ADHD. Kids who have trouble with impulse control may blurt things out. They may do unsafe things without thinking it through. They�re likely to rush through homework without checking it. They also may quit a chore halfway through to go hang out with friends and have trouble following rules consistently. 2,3,5- Emotional control:This is your child�s ability to manage her feelings by focusing on the end result or goal. Emotional control and impulse control are closely related. Kids who struggle with emotional control often have trouble accepting negative feedback. They also may overreact to little injustices. They may struggle to finish a task when something upsets them. 6- Flexibility: This is your child�s ability to roll with the punches and come up with new approaches when a plan fails. Kids who are inflexible think in very concrete ways. They don�t see other options or solutions. They find it difficult to change course. They may get panicky and frustrated when they�re asked to do so. - Working Memory... 4- Self-Monitoring... 6- Planning and prioritizing... 6- Task Initiation... - Organization... What, specifically, was stressful about the two assignments? While many individuals may not enjoy public speaking or presentations, most do not shut down or become derailed. I'd look for an underlying cause. If not EF, then in what direction to search...?

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237439 03/27/17 01:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Thanks for your thoughts. I can see where you saw the similarity but I really don't think so with him. I think with the group project it was that it was a new thing that involved solving a problem and making a skit. It also involved working with a group to generate and vet ideas, agree on the final idea, create props and coordinate efforts when many of the team members had extra curricular activities that prevented them from meeting out of school hours. So it was garden variety quite valid stress. The second assignment was a week after the presentation, so another immediate ramp up of stress without a break, that involved creating a visual presentation and evaluation of all the learning in the last term. The presentation was to two teachers and his parents (us). He had been deeply unhappy the whole term so he likely wanted to say something less than positive but was forced to come up with something, present it and then face a negative evaluation of his behaviour - in front of his parents. I appreciate the breakdown but the issue was stress, frustration. Like spending two months preparing a presentation for a group while 99% of the time thinking you're going to completely bomb and then having to present a summary of the last few months to your boss who then tells you that your attitude sucked. Wow, thanks for making me articulate that. It sounds completely rational really. Moving on from that is the issue. What would you do as an employee? Look for a new job or stiff upper lip?

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237441 03/27/17 03:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8 I indigo Member
indigo Member I Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8	Originally Posted by tillamook deeply unhappy the whole term... 99% of the time thinking you're going to completely bomb... negative evaluation of his behaviour... attitude sucked. Looking beneath the stress and frustration to see what triggered it to such a level of intensity that there does not seem to be sufficient resiliency to recover, learn, and move on. Did the majority of students have this experience, or was he in the minority? Were most of the students deeply unhappy? Did most of the students spend 99% of the time on the group project thinking they were going to completely bomb? If this was not a problem of this magnitude for the majority of students, what factors do you believe caused them to experience this term differently than your son? Do you see his experience as a problem of poor "fit" educationally? Do you see his experience as stemming from something internal? (The content of his self-talk, possibly a tendency to dwell on the negative, etc?) Do you see his experience as a combination of poor academic "fit" with his learning environment and also something internal? The answer to your question of what to do going forward may depend largely upon the answers to the above sets of questions. If he changes learning environments he brings his self-talk and beliefs with him. Does the school have a school psychologist you could speak with about your concerns for your son?

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237555 04/04/17 11:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Very good points. I think it is self talk, coping skills, anxiety perhaps mixed with an innate amplified sensitivity. I actually think the academic fit is good. I should set up a meeting with the school counselor. The crux of it is his reluctance/refusal to meet with any counselors. I do wonder if the school environment (which isn't exactly a natural normal one) is just too much for how he's wired. As adults we can choose (to some extent) where we fit work-wise based on our likes/dislikes. People who hate public speaking wouldn't be teachers. People who dislike large groups might do research or programming. etc. Is it necessarily "wrong" to find school a miserable setting?

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237556 04/04/17 11:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,007 The Sub-Tropics JonLaw Member
JonLaw Member Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,007 The Sub-Tropics	Originally Posted by tillamook I appreciate the breakdown but the issue was stress, frustration. Like spending two months preparing a presentation for a group while 99% of the time thinking you're going to completely bomb and then having to present a summary of the last few months to your boss who then tells you that your attitude sucked. Wow, thanks for making me articulate that. It sounds completely rational really. Moving on from that is the issue. What would you do as an employee? Look for a new job or stiff upper lip? You know, that's a pretty good description of how the practice of law works.

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor JonLaw #237570 04/05/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Ouch. I better make sure he doesn't go into law then. It likely takes an especially resilient personality.

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237571 04/05/17 08:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Spaghetti - thanks for your comment. Good point. I'm not sure that virtual school will be better but I have a strong feeling it will. I think the social aspect of school is a big stressor for him. He has friends and communicates fairly well with them (at the level of most grade 8 boys in any case) but I think negativity from people who are more aggressive really affects him. That said I agree that his perception of virtual school being a different path than his peers might be a stumbling block. I've read a lot about it and am reassured that it's quite a successful path especially for gifted learners but he hasn't had the benefit of all that reading. The virtual school has a structured curriculum with a progress bar for each course. I would start out expecting him to work in a very structured way. If he shows he can keep up or even get ahead I would give him more freedom to structure his days how it works best for him. The idea would be to do virtual school for the four academic courses and have him to his gym/PE, French and electives at the bricks and mortar school that's close to us. That would give him a bit of structure and interaction while allowing him to work at home for the other courses. In fact transferring now might be ideal as it would give him a few months of doing this before committing to a full year. He has been asking to attend the local school full time but I don't see how the new school will be any different than what he's experiencing now. I'm especially interested in how your DS has the same inability to express himself or explain his feelings. I'm glad to hear it's not just my DS. Can I ask what age he was at when this was happening and how it turned out/if it changed over time? How did you deal with his school situation? Thanks again for your comments.

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237572 04/05/17 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Can I add he has lately had some imposter syndrome issues. The test used to identify him as gifted was a short version used by the schools. It doesn't translate directly into an IQ number (despite my searching) so he's not sure he trusts it. Also, as he's in a more challenging program he might be doubting his intelligence for the first time. Not used to being challenged.

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237574 04/05/17 09:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8 I indigo Member
indigo Member I Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 5,261 Likes: 8	Yes, an appropriate challenge does not always feel good, if one has not been used to challenge. But if one values acquiring these life skills, one learns to embrace an appropriate challenge... even learns to seek out such challenges and growth opportunities. This reminds me of the challenges kids choose to undertake in setting and meeting goals while earning the Congressional Award for young Americans.

Re: Anxiety - won't see a counselor tillamook #237576 04/05/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116 T tillamook OP Member
OP tillamook Member T Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 116	Indigo - thanks for your comments. This does seem like a coachable moment in terms of helping him understand why things feel different (more challenging -it might not be obvious to him). I'm not sure how to coach him into appreciating the challenge especially when anxiety is clouding the issue.

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