Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Do you think this indicates math talent?

ultrmarina - do you have a sense whether she is deliberately rushing, in say, a perfectionist if-I-don't-try-I-can't-actually-fail kind of way? Or if she might genuinely struggle to do all the things you list above? Because that description sounds a lot like my DS, with major math ability but attention and writing and retrieval issues getting in the way of his output. (An interesting marker of the attention aspect is that he rarely makes careless mistakes on the really challenging questions. But reading his own writing is always a problem. So is retrieval of math facts.)

She quite possibly has attention issues. Her handwriting is fine, but small, and as I said, she has this weird compulsion (I use that word intentionally) to fit everything on one page and not use extra paper. She still does things in her head that she should not do in her head. I notice that there isn't an obvious pattern as to what she gets wrong on tests--it's not like she just gets the hard ones wrong. She frequently increases a somewhat mediocre test score by getting extra credit points (her teacher puts brain teaser/logic questions on the tests for extra credit--she always does these!)

Let's see if I can add some more background. Without sounding braggy, DD is generally good at everything. Because she has always expressed resistance to/lack of interest in math, we have set it aside as "not her thing." I suspect that if she weren't all-around high ability, we would have paid more attention to the sparks in this area that flash from time to time. It's of interest that her standardized test scores in math are always higher than in reading (not that those are not high, but math scores are always 99%). She may just score higher on math SAT than verbal. But she thinks of herself as a writer and artist. BTW, though, she loves Vi Hart.

My son was struggling in math because he was doing things in his head that he shouldn't. Why? He's concerned about forestry and wasting trees by writing out his work. We went hiking/camping in a managed/logged forest to show him that there are viable alternatives to clearcutting that are commercially used. And we check for recycled and/or sustainable sourced stamps on paper products. For a while he was using a white board to show his work too. He shows his work now an is doing well in math.

Any chance her math difficulty / paper usage difficulty has nothing to do with math at all?

Are you sure you aren't talking about my DD? I swear this sounds just like mine. Sigh. What is it about fitting all the work into a teeny tiny space?? Both DD's had this horribly long math packet last night - hours long - and DD11 was making math errors because she couldn't read her own problems. I'm not sure how the teachers read her work. These math sheets give about an inch for a complicated algebra problem. I suggested she use another piece of paper, and you would I have thought I was suggesting something illegal.
My DD (diagnosed with ADHD but questions remain) also is much more interested in writing and art. She always says she hates math (and then gets A's despite the hatred).

One of mine went through a phase of trying to fit everything into minuscule spaces as well, with a minimum of writing. We had repeated conversations about math as a language, and as communication, and eventually got to the point where sufficient work is shown--though there is still a tendency to write just a bit smaller than a presbyopic adult can quite read comfortably. And yes, it was about wasting paper.

Whiteboards have been very helpful for both my kids, for different reasons. DS does all his math on one (sometimes two for a long problem). When it's work for submission (such as an on-line course he took), we take photos of the whiteboard as he goes, paste them into a big PDF, and submit that electronically. No trees die! There's no reason this can't be done at school - except stigma, alas. It worked great for DD when she was young, though - teacher just pulled out her phone and took a picture every time DD finished something.

Thank goodness for bonus challenge questions - DS always gets them easily, and they usually make up for the all the marks he lost to careless errors (at school he still does math on paper; it's the only thing he doesn't keyboard).

He too does do way too much in his head. The only solution I ever found to that was AoPS, where the complexity of the problems actually requires writing out the details to avoid errors, and where the proofs that need to be submitted in the course became an enjoyable challenge for him to produce (much to my surprise). Some of contest math we're playing with at home is getting complex enough that he's starting to make mistakes because he isn't writing enough down. That's hitting him where it hurts, and doing far more to convince him to write down more steps than anything I could ever say. Still, we work the problems side-by-side and I'm always writing at least three times what he does... sigh. Mathematician I'm not. All that to say, the willingness to "show your work" depends a great deal on being given work worth showing.

DS in 8th grade now taking Honors Geometry did this in 6th in Algebra I. He got better in Alg II in 7th mainly because the solutions were getting much bigger, taking up half the page. I think he had no choice.

In Alg I he struggled a bit at the start of the year. The teacher seemed to give him a hard time. After about 6 weeks the teacher had to leave due to health issues. A new teacher replaced the old teacher and it was like night and day. He said the new teacher would explain homework rather then just go over class work and send you on your way to do your own homework. The new teacher would also give partial credit on test for silly mistakes but expect you to correct and turn in all the problems you got wrong.

I am in the process of making laminated graph paper and blank sheets as they are less bulky to carry to activities. I also finally found small very fine tipped whiteboard markers with erasers on the end. Ds7 puts a laminator sheet on his workbook and does calculations in the blank space or on top of pictures or other problems. Not much good at school but great for homework.

Yes!! DD is also freaked out by killing trees and gives this as a reason to fit it all on one page. And yes, if I do a problem alongside her, I write down like 3x as much. And now I have a 9yo doing the same thing. (me and his teacher both: "Where is your work?" DS: "What work?")


It doesn't smear?

Several of the comments show how environmentalist zealotry can cause problems. Someone who understands the free market will know that we won't run out of trees because profit-seeking companies will plant more trees as long as there is demand. I have explained to my children why The Lorax is abominable agitprop.