Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Do you think this indicates math talent?

DD13 says she hates math and professes to be bad at it. She is taking Algebra 1 and doing okay, as far as I can tell (this teacher is a bit odd in how she grades--I suspect her grade is inflated). She has very low self confidence as far as math and self directs towards the humanities.

However, for as long as she's been able to talk, she has been interested not in school math or math calculations, but funny little math ideas. What I want to know, because math is 100% not my thing, is whether DD should be encouraged to persevere with math til she gets to "big math"/interesting math. Here is an example of the kind of "math rule" DD tends to come up with when she should be paying attention in class. I have NO idea if this demonstrates math aptitude or is just a pretty obvious thing. my brain does not in any way work this way so to me it is impressive, but on the other hand I can see how it's just a basic identity, perhaps? I will NOT be offended if you tell me it is nothing special. What do you think?

x + y = (x squared-y squared)/x-y

Because of the order of operations, "x-y" should be parenthesized, so you have

x + y = (x^2- y^2)/(x-y)

This is a consequence of x^2 - y^2 = (x+y) * (x-y), which is an important formula which I guess would be taught in Algebra II. She has probably has some math talent if she is deriving the formula she did while in Algebra I.

Oh yes, I forgot the parentheses. (my fault--she had them!)

x^2 - y^2 is a difference of squares, the factoring for which is taught in algebra 1. It's possible that your dd figured that out before it was introduced in class.

Regardless, I'll suggest that yes, of course your dd should be encouraged to persevere with her "funny little math ideas." You never know where that might lead.

My son struggled very much in math until he heard a mathematician on public radio talking about number theory and creativity expressed in math. His teacher at the time said "let him do whatever he will do", so he did number theory unit in the grade level and then continued flying through math.

I think we underestimate the significance of social pressure. My sister was average in math, had a terrible math teacher in high school and struggled. I was 6 years younger and somehow came to the conclusion that *I* was bad at math. I had D's and F's in math in high school - at first from a poor parochial middle school with poorly-trained teachers and curriculum outdated by a generation - then from giving up. As adults, my sister is pursuing an accounting degree (surprise!) and I took a college math class - skipping on class in the normal progression and coming out with an A- anyway (surprise!). My sister and I succumbed to beliefs that we were incapable of learning math. The only thing we actually lacked was self-efficacy.

My sister, my son, and myself all struggled with our thoughts about our abilities rather than our actual abilities. Perhaps a little nurturing and encouraging will help your daughter to discover whatever she is capable of.

It would indeed be impressive if she self-derived, but in AOPS this is Algebra I and not II. Do check what they are doing in their math class.

My older son thought he was "bad at math" for three years (4th-6thgrades) because of a random innocent comment by a teacher at the same time he was winning contests for math, getting highest score on state tests in math and other indicators that this wasn't true. I also think because he didn't know how to do each math skill before someone taught him, he thought he wasn't as good at it as other academic areas. But he really thinks logically and mathematically about most stuff he comes across and has since 3rd grade....percentages, probability, fractions are part of his thinking and conversations about life....not how I think at all.

My second son is the kind of kid who you teach a foundation concept and then asks about the next logical concept as well as three concepts down the road. He might not have it all figured out but his mind is just whirling on. You can give him an above level test and he can "muscle through it" pretty decently using what he does know and what he thinks the next higher stuff is. Confidence has never been a problem with this one in any area.

I've ranted extensively on this topic before, so I will try to keep it short for a change

The stuff they do in most elementary schools isn't math. It's basic computation, usually taught extremely confusingly and badly by people who are scared of math and want to avoid it as much as possible. In some curriculums, it's more of a language arts writing exercise than a math one. The unfortunate result is tons of kids who think they hate math and/ or are bad at it.

I suspect someone who loves/ is good at math is someone who likes to think about patterns and relationships and why things work and what cool things can you do with that. But they don't usually get to do any kind of conceptual math thinking at school. So if she miraculously thinks she might like math despite it all, find her some Numberphile videos, Martin Gardner books, etc, and let her wallow in math presented by people who love math and want to share the joy they find in it. THEN she can decide if it's for her, and maybe discover the joy that is AoPS.

I wondered this, but it wouldn't be much like her to "fake" this to impress us. She is not a pleaser in any way. Still, you do have a point. She is doing Common Core Pearson Alg 1. It may well be that she was not taught THIS, but something that suggested it somehow.

She has fooled around some with math contests etc. Her scores are not bad, but not worthy of going further, if you know what I mean (as in, she can kinda hang at MATHCounts at a gifted magnet school, but there are also those kids who are doing much better) and anyway she doesn't want to. She doesn't really like *problems.* It's a fascination with discovering patterns...always has been.

For what it's worth, my DS8 is younger, but also very into discovering patterns. He noticed on his own looking at a multiplication table that there are two boxes diagonally adjacent to every perfect square that are one less than that number, which did make me think of this thread. I didn't have a pencil and paper to show him at bedtime, but I did want to work through multiplying out (x+1)(x-1) so he could see why. Maybe this weekend.