Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research PG? Husband is a skeptic, I am on the fence

peanutsmom,

Like I mentioned in a previous post, my DS got 19 on both VS subtests as well. I am too waiting for the extended norm to come out. You will need the raw scores. So if you did not get them from the examiner, you may want to get it from her.

aeh - just PMed you. Thank you

Interesting that he completed all but one design on both WISC and WAIS, since the WAIS is intended for noticeably older (and presumably more capable) examinees. So no, he didn't hit the absolute ceiling, but yes, he did not meet discontinuation criteria. And, of course, 19 is the max scaled score. You should definitely obtain raw scores for any subtest with a 19 scaled score, if you want to be able to calculate extended scores in the future.

As to the wild ride--yes and no. There is no way to prepare for it, nor is there a way to predict what form it may or may not take. As with any child, of whatever intelligence classification, we parent the child who is in front of us right now. With long term principles, yes (character, virtues, self-management, responsibility, etc.), but beyond that? Part of the beauty and the mystery of raising a human being is that we discover along with them how their paths unfold.

Enjoy, treasure, love. That's enough.

Thank you. That is beautiful.

I have been following this thread with interest because I have a somewhat similar DD6. She has very unusual VS and VCI scores. I, too, was initially surprised, but the more I have learned, the more I see. I don't exactly know how to label her either. This isn't that big of a deal because I don't go around discussing it with people. But as you say, it's still nice to know what to expect and what kind of reading may be applicable. Ultimately, I've read that this is at least partly a clinical determination, so if your tester used the PG label, I'd say s/he knows your kid better than any of us. Ours didn't give us much more info than scores and the advice that she was going to need a lot more at school.

I think one of the most important things you said was that your DS is well adjusted and has found a good school situation. That's excellent, and I'm jealous! Testing did help me understand a big part of why we've been in three different schools already and has given me more moral support in advocating for her needs.

I hope you continue to do well on this journey and know that while uncommon, you are not alone

Indigo - my son has been tested and scored in the 99.9% a few yrs after that early Olsat test when he did not qualify for gifted services. We had him tested a bunch of times after what happened at two private gifted schools.

Polarbear and Solaris have already mentioned about what can happen with 2e kids and with testing. I thank Polarbear here as well.

FYI - Jake Barnett's IQ was tested at 170, which his mother wrote in the book, The Spark. Jake's on the autism spectrum, though, and his working memory has been tested in the 99.9%. If based solely on his IQ, I guess Jake technically wouldn't be considered pg. I don't think Jake's mother, though, had any idea that Jake would be doing half of what he did however based on his early development, test scores, or anything else.

Solaris thank you so much again for sharing your insights and the reading suggestion, it is very much appreciated! I have been toying the idea of homeschooling him in the afternoons, but I am not confident enough to do it. His building skill surpasses mine, and I am a tech worker, and so far his strength mostly shows up in his afterschool hobbies.

ChasingTwo, we were rejected from all schools that required IQ test - the reason we did the IQ test in the first place. The schools were marketed for gifted population and a lot of marketing that was. But I think they don't want kids who are over 2 SD, they will take kids lower than 2 SD in fact (I know this for sure), I think they just want the money without doing a lot of work. The school we ended up in actually is not for gifted students, but was our first choice because they are well respected and didn't do marketing, and they deliver what they promise - and they didn't promise GT education, but they respect my son and makes him more well rounded and all. We have very kind and competent teachers.

I am not quite sure what the future might hold for my DS. Solaris it seems your DS is a lot more even than mine. Mine is clearly very tilted towards VS, his VS score is almost 4 SD from the mean without consulting the extended norm, and once we get the extended norm, I don't know where it will be. He is normally gifted everywhere else. DH and I are both in tech working in computer sci and applied math, so this is probably a natural thing to happen genetically. Still I was not like this as a child, and he is our first child, so this is a lot of learning for me. I might be a bit biased too, since our friend's kid also seems to be very VS (they are tech workers as well).

Btw, Silverman tested a few PG kids and she found that Stanford Binet vs Weschler had consistently around 80-100 points discrepancy; Stanford Binet gives higher results than Weschler. I don't know if that's due to higher ceiling or the test being older or just different.

FYI, those findings were pre-extended norms, and referred solely to the tests before the WISC-IV. Silverman herself was involved in developing the extended norms for the WISC-IV, as she currently is in those for the new WISC-V. In the case of very high VS kids with unremarkable verbal gifts, the score discrepancy could easily be in the reverse direction, since the old Stanford-Binet L-M, to which Silverman was referring, was heavily verbal.

What anonymous unknown posters may share as a general truth without knowing a person's particular child is possibly less diagnostic about that child than what a professional tester may have written about a testing experience... or multiple testing experiences.

An IQ of 170 is considered profoundly gifted. Hoagies has this handy chart. There are many wonderfully inspiring stories about this remarkable young man and the manner in which his mother homeschooled him, which led to his entering college at age 11.


"...did not qualify for gifted services"
Being identified as any level of gifted is different than qualifying for a gifted program or services. A person can be identified as gifted and yet not be a fit for a particular gifted program. Similarly, a student may be selected for a gifted program in a particular school and yet not be identified as gifted (typically top 2% of the population, IQ 130-132+).

"tested and scored in the 99.9%"
To clarify, was he tested and identified as profoundly gifted? Was the 99.9th percentile score which you mention received on a particular subtest? In overall IQ? Ability? Achievement? (For example, the IAS recommends tests which measure student ability (most recent Wechsler or Binet, Woodcock-Johnson... or CogAT), aptitude (above-level tests such as ITBS, EXPLORE, or ACT), and achievement (Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (WIAT) or Woodcock-Johnson Tests of Achievement (WJ-ACH).)

I went back to look at old posts because I don't keep everyone's situation straight and remember what the history looks like. Others may wish to do that as well, so they can best understand the source of the pg label for your son.

On this forum, all are accepted, supported, and encouraged regardless of level-of-gifted (LOG); There is no need to make embellished claims of a child's intellectual gifts.

peanutsmom - It is wonderful that your child excels with his martial arts, as in many ways our society and culture value athleticism over intellectual/academic pursuits.

Does anyone here have PG kids at private gifted schools? We were declined in all but one of those schools, but chose not to attend the one that accepted us, because we were worried when we sat down with the parents community for tea. Some parents mentioned that their family member was "genius", verbatim in their own words "not self proclaimed genius, but real genius". We didn't feel like we had a genius in our hands, nor did we want to label him genius before he had anything to show in terms of breakthrough contributions to the society and not just excelling at school. We were very worried about pressure to hot house him causing him to lose his childhood and us our family life, and decided to not go for that school.

He is now only a second grader, and I am unsure what we'd do for high school when it comes time. We are going to do private school all the way, since we don't live in a good school district, but our experience applying for kindergarten was rather traumatic if it is indicative of high school application process. If they still require test, I don't know what I'd do. Make sure that he is not his best self when testing? Tell him to tank it a bit in visual spatial so he looks just normally gifted? I don't like to think that the schools don't like my son because he is too far from the norm, but it looks like that's the way it is. He is on the mellow side, occasionally push limit just like normal kids his age, but is mostly on the conforming, rule oriented side, and went to a preschool that emphasized social emotional development, so we were surprised when he was rejected by nearly all.

Indigo, we are in Silicon Valley where athleticism doesn't seem to be valued as much as academic achievement. There are a lot of immigrants who came here on their academic achievement, working in tech and a lot of kids who don't have a lot of life outside of academics. Sometimes I feel as if I intentionally swim against the stream when I am trying to give my kids as normal childhood as they can have and for us to have as normal family life together as possible. I am actually surprised he does so well in martial art, but I think it is because of memory, a lot of it involves memorizing steps and understanding the technicalities of the kicks and stuff and then applying it to your body. I think it is a healthy workout for him. I let him choose his own extra curricular activities. Maybe one of the reasons of his blooming later (if he would) is our own choice, but he doesn't seem to mind it. But also maybe that is because there are a lot of areas where he could just learn together normally with his friends in the classroom setting, since outside of VS he might just be a normally gifted kid.

DD goes to a private GT school and if anyone brings up having a genius in the family, I think it'd be incredibly awkward.

I know how stressful the admission process can be first-hand. At the end of the day though, you want to send your DS to a high school that is going to appreciate him for who he is and where he is likely to find his tribe.

I don't think it's ever too early to start your research but your DS might want to attend a boarding school instead of staying home. You just never know with kids.