|
0 members (),
85
guests, and
13
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31
Junior Member
|
OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31 |
NWEA MAP:
Math 220/216/242
Reading 237/220/232(Winter retake)/228
language 229/232/226
SRI:1027/1228/1264 Assuming those are in chronological order and all with the same test, that looks like no growth or negative in reading/LA. That seems like a good starting point to say that something is wrong, or that the current situation is not serving him well. Edit: Assuming I am reading the chart (linked above) correctly all of those spring scores are greater than the 99th percentile. The school only started using the NWEA this year so I don't think they have done much as far as looking at the data collected. I think they are looking at how his scores have remained in the 99% and above range for the whole year so all is good. Maybe they are right but I am looking a couple of grades ahead and, except for his spring math score, his scores have been steadily declining. Math 98.5/91/99 (3rd grade) Math 91/70/97 (4th grade) Reading 99/97/93 (4th grade) language 98/97.5/92 (4th grade)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31
Junior Member
|
|
OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31 |
So if I'm reading the norms correctly, your DC was already right up in the 99th %ile range on the fall reading and language tests, which is probably why his scores fell slightly over the course of the year. MAP has item lockout, which prevents the same items from being re-administered within a certain time frame. There aren't that many very high level items in the 2-5 pool. I would imagine that he exhausted the pool early in the process, so the adaptive item selection started tossing him slightly easier items, as they were the highest ones remaining. If the school re-set the item pool on the winter reading retake, that might have allowed him to go back up at that point, and then fall again in spring, on the same item pool issue. His SRI/lexile puts him above the 75th %ile for 12th graders, which tends to support the test ceiling hypothesis. He did make significant gains as assessed by that measure.
I wouldn't say that the data definitively show that he has lost ground in reading and language.
BTW, his spring math scores are in the 99th %ile for end of 3rd grade, the 97th %ile for end of 4th grade, the 90th %ile for end of 5th grade, and well above the score at which entering 5th graders are supposed to be moved up to the MAP 6+ and considered for SSA in math, according to NWEA. You may not see much more MAP score growth in math until his testing is switched up to the 6+. Thanks, aeh! My concern is that he is not challenged at school and, since he is well-adapted and does not act out when bored, the school seems to think everything is fine. So do you have any suggestions on how we can accurately track his progress (or lack thereof)? Is he too young to be moved to the 6+? My concern is not if he is growing in a linear manner (mastering curriculum items) only that he has a challenging environment and work that keeps him engaged. I hope that makes sense!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 833
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 833 |
My son had very similar scores end of 2nd grade. In 3rd grade, he showed great growth in reading and very little in math as he had hit the ceiling in several sub tests. Now at the end of 4th grade, they finally switched him to 6+ MAP. He showed growth in math but again very little in reading. Our district does not believe in acceleration either grade or single subject.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 602 |
Anecdotally, I have heard about gifted kids in split grade classrooms that it became really hard for teachers to ignore that a kid was ready to work right alongside the higher grade kids, and, compared to most, actually above - puts it all in perspective for the teacher, as it were, and the kid basically skipped themselves. The crux being, of course, whether the school might be persuaded into letting him advance with the other fourth graders.
The teachers would have to agree that it would be ridiculous if he were then to remain in the 3rd/4th classroom for another year and essentially have to REPEAT 4th grade.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 833
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 833 |
We were is split classrooms until this year. They don't really work like traditional classes. There are A and B years. It does matter the order they teach science and social studies. In our district, math and reading were by grade level and the kids split for that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31
Junior Member
|
|
OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31 |
Aeh, I read your post after typing this reply. It makes perfect sense now that there are not enough "hard" question for DS to get a higher score. Thanks again for your help. NWEA MAP:
Math 220/216/242
Reading 237/220/232(Winter retake)/228
language 229/232/226
SRI:1027/1228/1264 Assuming those are in chronological order and all with the same test, that looks like no growth or negative in reading/LA. That seems like a good starting point to say that something is wrong, or that the current situation is not serving him well. Edit: Assuming I am reading the chart (linked above) correctly all of those spring scores are greater than the 99th percentile. The school only started using the NWEA this year so I don't think they have done much as far as looking at the data collected. I think they are looking at how his scores have remained in the 99% and above range for the whole year so all is good. Maybe they are right but I am looking a couple of grades ahead and, except for his spring math score, his scores have been steadily declining. Math 98.5/91/99 (3rd grade) Math 91/70/97 (4th grade) Reading 99/97/93 (4th grade) language 98/97.5/92 (4th grade)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31
Junior Member
|
|
OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 31 |
Anecdotally, I have heard about gifted kids in split grade classrooms that it became really hard for teachers to ignore that a kid was ready to work right alongside the higher grade kids, and, compared to most, actually above - puts it all in perspective for the teacher, as it were, and the kid basically skipped themselves. The crux being, of course, whether the school might be persuaded into letting him advance with the other fourth graders.
The teachers would have to agree that it would be ridiculous if he were then to remain in the 3rd/4th classroom for another year and essentially have to REPEAT 4th grade. Tigerle, that's EXACTLY what I'm advocating for. The school just does not do skips. DS would be the first. All I'm asking is for the school to allow DS to work at his natural level of ability/knowledge which I feel pretty confident will be at the 4th grade level. I want them to commit to skipping him to 5th grade the following school year if that turns out to the case. Seems reasonable, right? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 30
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 30 |
So if I'm reading the norms correctly, your DC was already right up in the 99th %ile range on the fall reading and language tests, which is probably why his scores fell slightly over the course of the year. MAP has item lockout, which prevents the same items from being re-administered within a certain time frame. There aren't that many very high level items in the 2-5 pool. I would imagine that he exhausted the pool early in the process, so the adaptive item selection started tossing him slightly easier items, as they were the highest ones remaining. If the school re-set the item pool on the winter reading retake, that might have allowed him to go back up at that point, and then fall again in spring, on the same item pool issue. His SRI/lexile puts him above the 75th %ile for 12th graders, which tends to support the test ceiling hypothesis. He did make significant gains as assessed by that measure.
I wouldn't say that the data definitively show that he has lost ground in reading and language. Minorly off topic rant: that's just bleeping stupid. I can understand an assessment having a ceiling, especially one like the MAP that is more for tracking growth over time instead of ability at a given time. But how hard would it be to generate an error when the test stops giving good results. Error: questions out of range is more useful than a ceiling that artificially and silently moves down. Anyway, back on topic.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 816
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 816 |
Part of the problem is that the school is not big on testing. The school has his full report with DYS qualifying scores both on the WISC-IV and on the WIAT-III. They've had that information for a couple of years but I feel a hesitation to take them to heart (perhaps because they were done by a private provider). He was also assessed with mandated district wide testing on the CogAT and Terra Nova with scoring mostly in the 99%. That seems to actually have hurt us as many kids score in the 94% and above (criteria for receiving high ability services in our school district) at DS school so the principal seems to think there about 20%-25% of the kids have a similar cognitive profile to my child not understanding that those tests have pretty low ceilings. Oh dear. Yep. (Sigh). Ah yes..."many others with a similar cognitive profile?" Hmmmmm...not statistically likely. We've been there. First, bring the WISC and WIAT scores along. Not flukes, indeed. Yes, depending on the versions your DS took the CogAT ceilings can be quite low...too low in all likelihood for a student with a DYS-level IQ. Argh...how do schools not understand test ceilings? So, the CogAT might not help, but look at the version and the ceilings of the test. The CogAT DYS DD10, took, for example, provided a low-estimate of her WISC IQ, very likely because of the lower ceilings. I'm going to again take a wild guess that this might be true in your DS's case and you may need to gently point it out if it comes up. You may also want to be armed with data on the statistical rarity of your DS's WISC score. So, again, take it for what it's worth (maybe not much ), but in our experience? Don't give up! Gently, persistently, keep at your request and why it makes sense. After years of advocacy, someone in our schools finally heard me this year...and DYS DS may get a chance to learn next year. They are trying something with him that they NEVER allow. DD also seems to have a better chance to learn next year. So things are looking up - but we had to keep at it and hear NO many, many times. I hope that your school comes to understand your DS's unique learning needs. Is your son DYS? If not, do apply - it is a wonderful source of BTDT advice from other parents and a community. I have my fingers crossed for you and your DS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,453
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,453 |
Part of the problem is that the school is not big on testing. The school has his full report with DYS qualifying scores both on the WISC-IV and on the WIAT-III. They've had that information for a couple of years but I feel a hesitation to take them to heart (perhaps because they were done by a private provider). He was also assessed with mandated district wide testing on the CogAT and Terra Nova with scoring mostly in the 99%. That seems to actually have hurt us as many kids score in the 94% and above (criteria for receiving high ability services in our school district) at DS school so the principal seems to think there about 20%-25% of the kids have a similar cognitive profile to my child not understanding that those tests have pretty low ceilings. Oh dear. Yep. (Sigh). Ah yes..."many others with a similar cognitive profile?" Hmmmmm...not statistically likely. We've been there. First, bring the WISC and WIAT scores along. Not flukes, indeed. Yes, depending on the versions your DS took the CogAT ceilings can be quite low...too low in all likelihood for a student with a DYS-level IQ. Argh...how do schools not understand test ceilings? So, the CogAT might not help, but look at the version and the ceilings of the test. The CogAT DYS DD10, took, for example, provided a low-estimate of her WISC IQ, very likely because of the lower ceilings. I'm going to again take a wild guess that this might be true in your DS's case and you may need to gently point it out if it comes up. You may also want to be armed with data on the statistical rarity of your DS's WISC score. So, again, take it for what it's worth (maybe not much ), but in our experience? Don't give up! Gently, persistently, keep at your request and why it makes sense. After years of advocacy, someone in our schools finally heard me this year...and DYS DS may get a chance to learn next year. They are trying something with him that they NEVER allow. DD also seems to have a better chance to learn next year. So things are looking up - but we had to keep at it and hear NO many, many times. I hope that your school comes to understand your DS's unique learning needs. Is your son DYS? If not, do apply - it is a wonderful source of BTDT advice from other parents and a community. I have my fingers crossed for you and your DS! I am so glad to see that things are looking more rosy for your DD and DS!
Become what you are
|
|
|
|
|
