Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment wisc iv and wisc 5

In terms of remediation, whatever you can do to help him build up a little more automaticity for math facts will probably pay off down the line, in higher math. But he may or may not be able to get those numbers up much more. Kids with this profile need tons of repetition to attain something approaching normal automaticity.

Whether or not he can improve his speed on times tables, you may want to ask for accommodations in school to include extra time, and using the computer for as much writing as possible, so that he can use spellcheck, word prediction software, thesaurus look up (because there are probably words he knows how to use, and recognizes in print, but can't spell well enough even to look up in the dictionary), and typed responses.

thank you. I truly appreciate all your help.

You are very welcome.

I have another question ...something bothering me that I am hoping Aeh or some of you can help me. I need appropriate feedback (please tell me if you disagree or agree). I had an 504 meeting for my son (scores in previous messages above). The meeting went fairly well. It was said by the school psychologist that "Dr. X (who I privately paid to evaluate my son) seems to think that the ADHD (inattentive type only) is worse than the dyslexia". At the time I did not want to engage on this point but now it keeps bugging me. First, it would be impossible to know which is worse. I think that he never said that in his report but even if he did, how would he know besides observations (which are fallible)? I guess my thought is that what if he is distracted/inattentive because he is dyslexic? How would we know which is worse (inattention due to ADHD or dyslexia) Thoughts?

What does it even mean to be "worse" in this context? I suspect that if he actually said it at all, he probably said something like that one "causes more significant impairments with everyday functioning," maybe specifically in the classroom. But that has no real value for what they should do to remediate. I mean, diabetes is probably worse than a broken arm, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't set a broken arm until after blood sugar is under control. Two distinct problems - treat them both.

Is it possible that what the school psych was trying to say is that the ADHD needs to be "treated" for the accommodations/remediations to be effective? "Treated" isn't really the word I'm looking for, so I"ll use another example. My 2e ds has an expressive language disorder and dysgraphia. If his SLP attempted to have him use handwriting to answer the questions she asked as part of his speech therapy to remediate the expressive language issues, he wouldn't make anywhere near as much progress as he can if he uses keyboarding to first eliminate the dysgraphia challenge.

I'm guessing your school psych was trying to say that your ds' challenges due to ADHD were making it difficult to fully benefit from the remediation or accommodations for his dyslexia - but again, that's just a guess.

FWIW, it wouldn't hurt to follow up by asking the school psych what was meant by the statement.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Usually, these are references either to statistical distance from the mean, or level of functional impairment. For example, he might have meant that inattention (and other ADHD-related symptoms) was (and I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat here) at a level seen in only 2% of the population, but reading difficulty was at a level seen in 10% of the population.

If functional impairment, then he might have meant that your DC is able to limp by more or less with reading comprehension, despite actual word-level reading difficulties, but that inattention is noticeably interfering with his access to instruction, or skill acquisition, or peer relationships.

I agree that remediation/accommodation for both is important, but I would also consider the value of working on the most severe challenge first, as it's probably the one soaking up the most of your child's energy, and affecting his educational experience the most.

Here's an N of 1 story, for what it's worth. Our experience with DD has been that prior to remediation, it was very difficult to separate cause and effect. Is poor attention impairing her reading? Or is inability to read causing her to tune out? We really couldn't tell, but both DD herself as well as teachers were identifying huge problems with focus and maintaining concentration.

Assessment determined that both dyslexia and ADHD-inattentive (and visual processing) were at play. We decided to start reading remediation first, and then determine if attention was seriously interfering with her ability to access the remediation. If so, we would consider medication for the ADHD, otherwise, we were continuing to support through scaffolding etc. Reading remediation was a tough slog, but we could almost immediately see that it was making a big difference, and we could easily see continual progress, so we left the drugs parked.

Now, with her reading program completed, it's very interesting to discover that her teachers no longer see ANY serious attention issues in class. DD is still clearly ADHD-inattentive in real life. However now that she can read and write, I can only guess that these activities have moved into the category of intrinsically-motivating, and so don't trigger the attention problems the way they used to.

None of this is to say remediate dyslexia and your attention problems will disappear - not at all! More to echo the comments above, which is to look closely at the remediation you doing, and assess whether attention issues are in fact interfering with your child's ability to benefit from the remediation. If attention is getting in the way of your child being able to use the supports provided, then it needs to be addressed as a prerequisite. I couldn't agree more with aeh's advice to start with the point of greatest pain - but sometimes it takes a little experimenting to figure out what that is.

Thanks for all your input. So, the school is not doing any remediation. They are only doing accommodations. I went back and looked at the 504 and the only diagnosis they wrote was ADHD. The diagnosis from the private doctor reads like this:

Adhd, primary inattentive type (mild to moderate)
specific learning disability with impairment in reading accuracy and fluency
specif learning disability with impairment in written expression affecting spelling accuracy, grammar and punctuation, writing output.

Previously to this doctor we have a visual processing diagnosis also (from years ago)
At the 504 meeting they gave me the most "typical accommodations" (copy of notes, preferential seating, positive praise, study guide) and I requested they add 3 others (extra time, alternate response, being allowed to take picture of homework assignment instead of having to write it down) and the school psychologist suggested 2 other things: and additional class period to complete work and 30% fewer questions to measure content/skills.
At the time of the meeting he had a D in two classes. But he is not failing anything.


He arrives home from school and takes a break for 30 minutes to 1 hour and then does homework the rest of the evening (sometimes 4 hours)-- the school says it is supposed to take 2 hours. I don't know if I am making more than I need (am I worrying unnecessarily?) or if the traditional school is not for him.

Thoughts?

I would suggest a couple of refinements of the accommodations suggested by the school psych and you:

1. typed response (this should include all the usual word processing supports, such as spell/grammar check, thesaurus).
2. supplementary oral assessment (teachers pull him aside after a test and say, "this is what you answered in writing for this question. Do you have anything to add?")
3. starred items only to demonstrate mastery of learning standards (this is a version of the reduced work load suggestion: teachers asterisk the key items on an assignment that will allow them to assess his mastery of state or local curriculum frameworks. He completes all of those items. If he completes any additional items in the assignment, they have instructional value, but if he doesn't, they don't count against him.)

And yes, four hours a day of homework is too much for an eleven year old. (Personally, I think two hours is too much, but I know a lot of high-achieving schools expect this.)