Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment JH CTY and SCAT scores

Thanks. That's what I suspected, but it was worth a shot. If JH responds with something different, I'll post for future reference.

I dug up her Explore test scores and she only met 2 of the 3 Explore-specific criteria, and I knew she had met them before. I guess that's a good thing, as it's 1 month past the 2 year cut-off and I would have been seriously bummed if she had met the new cutoffs and I missed the dates.

Sounds like either another round of SCAT later this year, or the SAT next January. Just about everyone accepts the SAT (CTY/SET, Duke, Davidson), so we'll probably look to that.

Would this the pre 94 SAT, the post 94 SAT ( analogies section taken out ) that even MENSA will not accept or the even dumber new one?

I ask because I am interested in encouraging my DD to take it next year in 7th grade and am wrestling with the idea because I wonder if it has been dumbed down to the point of worthlessness these days with its lowered ceiling.

I am considering the ACT now but would like to see if the new SAT has any advocates...

It would be rather difficult for our 8-14 year-old kids to be taking the pre-1994 SAT. I can't comment on the "even dumber" new one as it's yet to actually be used - the final session for the old one is scheduled for tomorrow, with make-ups going into February.

All of these programs are based on percentiles/standard deviations, so the scoring ranges, ceilings, etc, are somewhat irrelevant. They could make it very hard, and the 98% cut-off could move from 700 to 500, but you'd get the same kids qualifying.

From the PSAT, practice tests, and input from most of the test-prep companies, the new SAT is pretty much identical to the ACT, so it doesn't seem to matter.

If you want to take a test soon, the ACT will get results quicker - College Board is waiting until the March and May tests are scored before establishing their scoring scale and publishing results. So you won't get any results, won't know whether the various cutoffs for admission are met, and won't even know what the cutoffs for admissions are for the SAT for quite some time.

JH SET, Duke RIT, Davidson, etc., have all said (iirc) that qualifying scores for the new SAT won't be available until the fall, at the earliest. ACT cutoffs exist today and won't change.

My twins are participating in the College Board study comparing the current and new SAT for younger (talent search) kids so I will have a more informed opinion to share in a few months. For now, I am just speculating based on a limited review, but I will say this much, unless or even if your DD is at a "hard ceiling" (100% correct) situation with the current SAT, I doubt that the new SAT will be "dumb down" for her. For example, on the current SAT, DS12 consistently scores 790-800 on the Math sections of College Board practice tests, but I don't know whether he will be able to score as highly on the new SAT. Keep in mind that the new SAT actually covers some more advance topics than the current SAT so younger kids can easily miss 1 or more questions. Also, unlike the current SAT, there is a "no calculator" section on the new SAT so calculation errors may be more prevalent. DS hasn't tried the math section on the new SAT practice tests but he has tried one CR section and his score was at the low end of his range although he is not at the ceiling for CR so his practice test scores have a 100+ point spread. I expect DS will have a lower CR score on the new SAT also because the new CR score incorporates the language subscore. In other words, I think it will be harder for most talent search kids to qualify for SET unless they switch to using the CR subscore (scale to 40) rather than the CR score (scale to 800 based on CR plus Language subscores). Of course, some GT kids are stronger with language mechanics than reading comprehension but the more common pattern seem to be higher CR than Writing/Language scores.

The new SAT will be like the ACT in that it is more of an achievement test versus the current SAT, which is somewhat of an ability test.

Follow up, as promised - she will be invited to the Grand Ceremony in October as a 6th grader meeting the 7th/8th grade score requirements for the SCAT test.

To piggyback on this thread - - - DS has been invited to the regular spring awards ceremony for a SCAT I'd almost forgotten he wrote (grade 5, done over a year ago). I'm trying to figure out if there is a good reason to go? I'm not seeing any events or activities (or even university tours) attached to this at all, just the one-hour awards ceremony itself. Old threads suggest it's pretty missable.

Has anyone been before/ plan to go this year, and is there more to it that would make it worthwhile?

We went last year and will go again this year because it is close to where we live and DS loves to collect the pins that they hand out at the ceremony. It is an entirely missable event if you are busy. There are no tours or any other special events associated with it for this year. Usually, there is a motivational speech given before the event by a volunteer who runs the ceremony. We use it as an opportunity to take DS out for lunch as an appreciation for his efforts at school and we walk around the college campus and return home. So, if you have better things to do on that day, you would not have missed much by skipping it

It was eye opening for DS to go there and see the hundreds of kids participating in the awards ceremony. For DS, who was the youngest last year, it was a good experience to see that there were so many motivated youngsters and he met a few kids that he already knew there and he was happy that they could go to future CTY camps together.

Thanks Ashley! I've read such great stories of Davidson get togethers, I wouldn't want DS to miss a chance to discover and interact with a world of kids like himself (but Canadians aren't eligible for Davidson, alas). The CTY would be major travel for us, and DS is pretty anti-competitive/ anti-spotlight, so an awards ceremony alone is not much of a draw for him. He could certainly use some real time with a group of bright and motivated youngsters, though!

This is not the event for such a meet up. DS recognized a few kids from his other activities like chess club, ensemble etc standing in the lobby outside and talked to them. The award ceremony itself consisted of a long line of kids (few hundreds) walking on stage, posing with the pin that they handed out (the certificate was mailed home to everyone) for 30 seconds and walking off. So, I am not sure if there was any worth to it. Many families brought grandparents and cousins to the event and had a lot of fun photographing the event.

A quick follow-up for future reference.

We attended our regional presentation this weekend. I'd say that if you have a bit of free time, and it's close, it's worth attending, but not worth a trip or missing something else.

We checked into the room where the ceremony was being held and had a seat. There was a welcome from the facility holding the meeting, a person delivering a 10 minutes talk, probably standardized across all sessions, about the founder of JH, and why gifted education is important, how proud the kids should be, congratulations, etc. Each then went up to receive a pin/get a handshake, only 25 at our session. Cookies and punch in the back afterwards. The ceremony was over in 25 minutes, we were out in 45.

The presenter posed for pictures in front of the JH banner with students who wanted a better picture than just walking across the stage - to go along with the templated press release for local papers, I assume. We saw one other student from our school district, and chatted for a few minutes.

I think recognition and words of encouragement are positive, but it's not a networking event or anything extremely valuable.