Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment questions from a newbie

Hi there. I have a few basic questions. My daughter is in first grade and reads at probably a 4th-6th grade level (I don't know for sure). Her teacher told us that she doesn't have a reading group because she has no peers in her class who read at her level (i.e., she's the strongest reader). Her writing skills are also very strong (this is obvious to any observer who might read the student writing examples on the walls) and her vocabulary skills are astonishing. She's otherwise very sharp & perceptive.

Our school district recently started implementing universal screening. I was very surprised that she didn't meet the cut-off (132) on the OLSAT for further testing. Her score was 113, which from what I've been able to make out, is basically "high average." They didn't even tell us what this translates to in percentiles or how it broke down for verbal & non-verbal.

I know everyone thinks their child is above average...but in all honesty, mine is not a "high average" child, as anyone who talks to her for 2 minutes can tell you. It's fine with me if she's not labeled as gifted, so I don't have an axe to grind. Rather, what I'm trying to understand is how it's possible for a kid to have a mediocre OLSAT score if they have such advanced language skills and decent (definitely above avg.) math skills. Do strong language skills not translate into high OLSAT scores?

We're meeting with school personnel on the 19th to ask these & other questions. TIA for any insights.

Esther

Welcome Corredora,

The OLSAT is a "learned ability" test rather than an innate ability test (IQ test). I don't know specifics about the OLSAT and can't speak to details, but it's not unusual on this board to find stories of students who performed only high average on the CogAT screeners for gifted programs (also a learned abilities test) yet scored HG+ and beyond on the WISC.


You can request a copy of the full report (if there is one); send the request in an email rather than calling and asking.

Do you have any other data that illustrates her ability level? What type of reading evaluations does the school provide?

Best wishes,

polarbear

You mention that the OLSAT testing is to qualify for further testing. Can you find out what that further testing is? Can you find out if there are other ways to still do the further testing (as in going private or if the school would be able to continue with further testing based on a teacher endorsement or something...)? I assume all of this is to qualify for some sort of gifted program in which case you might be able to figure out the above by reading the criteria for applying/entering whatever program it is (assuming of course that it is documented somewhere...).

I'll add that I have a kid that who scored much, much higher on an actual IQ test than for our countries version of the CogAT. Luckily our board accepted the IQ test scores instead although we had to pay to test him privately.

That's just the thing: I don't know what kinds of reading evaluations they are doing. I've just asked the teacher today what her assessed reading level is. I've been guessing from the chapter books she's reading.

Thanks for your response. The next test (for kids who passed the OLSAT cutoff) is the KBIT-2. Here's the info: http://www.scasd.org/Page/21169 It's all very controversial b/c the school district was found to be out of compliance with state law on gifted education. (There are thousands of professors' kids in the district who, not surprisingly, end up taking lots of AP classes & getting into great colleges. So largely b/c of this the district until now has gotten away with an experimental learning enrichment program.)

Both my kids tested HG+ on the WISC IV (well one kid, the other had slow processing but using his GAI he qualifies for DYS). Both my kids did not qualify for the gifted program with the OLSAT. From what I've read the OLSAT is a screener for school ability (and you are allowed to prepare for it) and it catches some gifted and high ability kids. Even the scores are rated as SAI (School Ability Index) not IQ. So not a valid indicator of gifted or not gifted, but it doesn't really help when that's what you need for your child to get into the gifted program and they don't accept outside testing…

I would ask for additional testing anyway based on teacher recommendation (which I'm sure you can get). Get her tested with an IQ test (hopefully a comprehensive one where they test both verbal and non-verbal domains).

If you don't care about gifted label, then it's not important. If you do, then I would do the above. I doubt that the school is going to be able to tell you why she didn't qualify on the OLSAT.

I did just think of something… one of the issues with the OLSAT is the teacher is allowed to read a question just once. If this is a relative weakness, that can bring her scores down. Reading and writing do not require the listening skills that are necessary to this test. Also, group tests do not seem to work for my kids as they are easily distracted by other kids.

You can also look at her scores (it will say verbal /non-verbal) and see if there is a pattern. If she scored highly on verbal but low on non-verbal that can still give you some information.

At our school they mail out the scores.

I would not read too much into results from a group screener. From what I understand, individual IQ tests are more accurate. The unfortunate thing is that, despite the fact that group tests like the CogAT and OLSAT are not supposed to be IQ tests, some schools use them that way (and some teachers and administrators don't seem to know the difference).

I know less about the OLSAT, as my kiddos have not taken it. I seem to have one of the rare DC whose CogATs and IQ results were not in stark contrast (both were 99 or 99+ percentile composites; DD has taken CogAT twice). Still, I get the sense that group tests often fall LOWER than individual IQ results. To be fair, the CogAT version DD took had a lower ceiling than did the IQ test (which had extended norms). DD's FSIQ (on the WISC) was 8-11 points higher than her CogAT composite, and her GAI (WISC) was 21-24 points higher.

Also adding this info from Hoagie's:

Group intelligence tests are commonly used as screening measures, to see if the child should move to a full gifted assessment. They are commonly administered by teachers. Group tests are generally normed on populations of all children, with relatively few gifted children among the mix. When taking group intelligence tests, gifted kids often "over-think" the questions, and perhaps make wrong selections. And since there's no individual tester to clarify unusual answers, the gifted kids often score lower on group intelligence tests.

The most common group intelligence tests, OLSAT and CogAT, are used in districts and programs across the country. Notable gifted professionals recommend them for screening potentially gifted children. However, a small study noted a potential problem with the OLSAT and very gifted children. While the correlation between group and individual intelligence tests is quite high for average scores, in this study that correlation almost disappeared for gifted scores. This means that while an average child will score very similarly on a group IQ test and an individual IQ test, a gifted child may not score similarly at all. And the study suggests that this group test may even result in a negative correlation for some gifted children: the more gifted the child, the lower the group ability test score! ["Investigations of the Otis-Lennon School Ability Test to Predict WISC-R Full Scale IQ for Referred Children" by Anna H. Avant and Marcia R. O'Neal, University of Alabama, Nov. 1986, ED286883] Though this study is no longer available from AskERIC, it can be obtained on microfiche from most education university libraries.

A 2001 study using the OLSAT noted a problem with the OLSAT and twice exceptional (gifted and learning disabled) students. A Comparison of the WISC-III and the Otis-Lennon School Ability Test with Students Referred for Learning Disabilities, by Thomas Guilmette et. al., Providence College and Brown University School of Medicine, showed that LD kids tended to score an average of 7.5 points lower on the OLSAT than their WISC-III full scale IQ scores. This study is available in the Journal of Psychoeducational Assessment, or for a few dollars from SAGE Publications on the 'net.

"The use of the OLSAT-6 in estimating overall intellectual abilities in children with suspected learning disabilities is not encouraged because it may frequently underestimate students' actual abilities, which may result in fewer appropriate referrals for further educational and intellectual abilities." "As with previous studies with gifted students, our research indicates that the OLSAT-6 appears to underestimate WISC-III FSIQ." -- Guilmette et. al., A Comparison of the WISC-III and the Otis-Lennon School Ability Test with Students Referred for Learning Disabilities

Individual intelligence tests are considered the most accurate measure of intelligence, but even they are not perfect. The Wechsler tests, Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC-IV) and Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence (WPPSI-III), and the Stanford Binet (SB-5) are the most common individual IQ tests. The WISC and WPPSI are most commonly used by schools. The Woodcock-Johnson III (WJ-III) cognitive, a relative to the WJ-III individual achievement test, may also be used. Individual IQ tests must be given by a school or counseling psychologist.

Interestingly, I checked my DS's OLSAT score and he scored 114 on the SAI.

Honestly I would have trouble with the test where the questions are only read once and I suspect a lot of gifted kids would...

I wonder if that was what he really meant, maybe the emphasis on the third word was significant, it could be interpreted... oh bother I missed the next question...what that was so badly phrased it doesn't even mean what they think it does, or did they ...