Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Ruf's Levels

When I first started researching giftedness for DS6 I came across Ruf's levels and put him at a solid 3 with a couple of 4 tendencies. I thought that meant he was just "regular old gifted" as opposed to "scary smart gifted". Now that I'm researching the levels a bit more (as opposed to the earlier is he/isn't he question), I'm confused by exactly where level 3 falls on the gifted spectrum. So, what is a "Level 3" exactly and does it give me any real information on him or is just a fun toy to play with?

Also, I've been looking at her book but can't decide whether it's worth $24. So really the same question, is her book useful or just interesting with no real application?

Thanks!!

The Ruf level's have been a topic of hot debate on this board. I actually have great respect for Dr. Ruf and what she's done for the GT world. She is actually local to us and I'd love to take my son to her.

However, the Ruf levels would not have worked for my son as a preschooler. I think the thing to keep in mind is that her sample size is small and is based on the kind of child she would see in her practice. Probably a relatively affluent and very involved parent base. We actually fit that profile, but my son was a very active preschooler who pursued his own interests. I read with him and played with him and he never seemed to be overly interested in "academics" - although we had many math and science discussions. He also wasn't very open with knowledge he had. He certainly did not hit any of her reading milestones. He also enjoying playing hard outside and running like a maniac. It would actually be interesting to know a bit about the families and kids that she based her levels on. At age 7, my son leans to level 4 as far as learning and ability and reads like a kid who has been reading since 3. But he definitely enjoys age peers (which are actually probably mostly MG kids). So like anything in life - YMMV (your mileage may vary!).

I do think the book is worth a read though regardless. I think it's good to keep in mind those levels are one construct of many to make sense of this craziness. Maybe reserve it at the library if you can?

Being too lazy to look it up, kimck, what is the name of the book?

At your service!

Losing Our Minds - Gifted Children Left Behind
http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Our-Mi...mp;s=books&qid=1217470750&sr=8-1

I got the book when DS was about 11. He was way past preschool years and I could not remember most of his early development so the checklist had not been very useful to us. What I found really useful in the book was the anecdotal descriptions of each of the kids at each of the levels, especially at the older ages. I found that as I read each chapter through with very concrete descriptions of what the kids were doing, I got a much better overall sense of what they were really like. When I got to the section on a certain level, everything snapped into place and I though, "Yep, that is just like DS." It was a really great moment for me.

There are lots of methodologic issues as kimck says so I don't think it is the be-all and end-all, but for us having the actual stories of actual kids in front of us presented somewhat systematically was a great reality check for us.

I love that book. I usually skip all personal stories in books... but I found that collection helpful to us. Mostly, I like the aspects of what worked and what didn't. The education options and the basic ignorance folks faced. I also think the book is always good as a touch stone in moments of gt denial.

Oh to your question... I would focus more on the general gt aspects and the education stuff (last couple of chapters).

I found the educational stuff useful in a general sort of way. I think that some of her conclusions about what can and cannot work to be overgeneralized.

Since her sample was primarily people who had sought her out for assessment, I think it is good to keep in mind that the sample might have overrepresented families that were having problems in their educational setting. Yes, that is very real and a real concern for our kids. But we just don't know how many HG kids there might be out there who did not seek her services. And of those, how many could have used those services, and how many were actually doing OK in their current setting. Without that information, I am not sure she is actually justified in drawing all the conclusions she does. She raises good concerns, don't get me wrong, but I think she just goes a bit too far based on the data she has (that actually holds for all the book, including her levels).

But I still really like the book.

Just to chime in...

There are all sort of problems with her methodology and conclusions, and I see them and acknowledge them. That's all true.

With that said, this was far-and-away the most useful book for me in recognizing and dealing with my GT denial and figuring out how to educate our HG+ child.

The descriptions are great. And while I don't agree with all her generalizations about HG+ kids and what educational situations are appropriate for them, I did feel like she gave me permission to pull my child out of school for homeschooling, and that was permission that I needed at the time.

Knowing that *lots* of other people with kids like mine had a hard time working with the schools, and that an expert in the field said that not only was it okay to consider homeschooling, but it was actually something she considered to be necessary for a lot of these kids because the schools just couldn't manage them...well, that really helped me to find my confidence, at a time when I had none. I needed to know that I wasn't overreacting. She said I wasn't.

I think many HG+ kids do great in the schools, provided they get the necessary accomodations (whatever those happen to be for the particular child). But mine wasn't doing great, and I will forever be grateful to Ruf for showing me just how GT DS7 is and for giving me permission to educate him appropriately.

I don't own the book. A friend loaned it to me. I keep meaning to buy it--mostly to put my money where my mouth is--but I haven't gotten around to it. I'd say you should at least check it out of the library if you haven't read it yet. If it doesn't help you--and it certainly doesn't help everyone--then you're not out anything.

And BTW, I like what Dottie said: it's one tool among many. You can never have too many tools!

Kriston,

That's a great story. I'll guess data attracted people might find the book a little anecdotal? As much as I'm driven to decision by data, the human/emotion(but not rampant, mind you) have to come into play. I've even overriden good data because my instinct are strongly suggesting otherwise.

It's hard to make big decisions that go against the grain, especially when you make them for your child! I'm glad that book gave you the confidence you needed to make the right decision for you son.

In the past year or so, I think I've read every opinion out there concerning what to do with the girls. I've valued each one and basically processed through them and blended those that applied to my family. It is great when you see that something in print that speaks: No, mom, you aren't crazy, these kids also did this and we think it's because..................

Funny story about the book, I haven't read it, but have read the online posts of her levels.
One thing that jumped out was the alert at birth and high apgar score thing.
When DD8 was born, it was not a typical delivery! At the end I felt as if I had been through "the war"! As I remember she had all tens, I think is the high number for Apgar. The doctor and nurses were all crazy about how high all her scores were, and "isn't that unuuuusualll", and they were all creepily mystified.

I was all: "Oh, I'm glad you like it because I'm never doing that again. Can someone please get me a sandwich or something?"

Yes, I'm all about data and logic, but I always trust my gut, too. I know that sounds weird, but I think we sometimes perceive things subtly that don't really get measured. If we are self-aware, then a good gut-check can really help to make sure the decision is a good one.

My gut-check back then screamed "Pull him out!" It was nice to have expert support for that.

And LOL about the sandwich! Boy, do I know what you mean there! The whole starving thing during delivery seems nuts to me. I was so hungry that I was nearly ready to eat my first child when I finally had him!