Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Achieving Only Half Of MAP Growth - Worry or Not?

I've actually seen SRI numbers well over 2000L. I do find the SRI to have a pretty good ceiling, and to be reasonably well-matched, as this sort of instrument goes, to individually-administered, gold standard measures (e.g., WIAT, WJ, TORC), with a couple of caveats: Very low-functioning students are often overestimated on the first administration, because of the default start point. Unmotivated students (and I work with adolescents...) and those unfamiliar with the computer-administered format may be underestimated.

For annual testing, the SAT and ACT are developing measures beginning with eighth grade, which have some advantages, as far as continuity with the precollege measures. A bit expensive for school-wide use, in most districts, though that appears to be a component of their marketing. Keep in mind that MAP is not intended to give precise measures of progress in high-achieving students. It's intended to sort and monitor progress in students for the purposes of remediating low achievers. Consequently, the ceiling is not that important (to the test developers and primary clients).

Thanks aeh! So right now, one good idea is to look at the SRI test. I wonder if I can get my school to use it. I wonder if I can get it administered independently. If convenient, how can I corroborate for them your observation that MAP is "intended to sort and monitor progress in students for the purposes of remediating low achievers".

So SRI can cover reading. Can we think of one for math?

Am I understanding you correctly, that SAT and ACT will at some point release tests that cover say 8th - 12th (?) grade abilities. I wonder what they will name this product and when it might be released.

I might conjecture further, that MAP might be okay for a gifted school, for K-4. But come 5th-8th grade, its starting to seem ill-suited. In that there are no low achievers at a gifted school, and that the high achievers will hit the practical MAP ceiling.

SAT measure beginning with 8th grade: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-8-9

And, of course, the existing PSAT/NMSQT, and the PSAT/10:
https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10

ACT measure for 3rd to 10th grade: http://www.discoveractaspire.org/assessments/periodic/

The ACT measure includes a version that is more similar to MAP in its use for districts and schools, in terms of repeated measures during the school year. This would, of course, have measures of math and critical reading.

Scholastic also publishes the SMI for math, but I don't have any direct experience with it, nor have I had as much positive feedback on it from other professionals.

aeh I appreciate your input. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but for example the ACT Aspire, covers grades 3-10. My concern is, here at this gifted forum, if say a girl in 4th or 5th grade was already scoring 245 RIT on MAP, the MAP is no longer of use to her or her parents or teachers. Nor similarly would ACT Aspire be helpful, I project. Indeed as you point out, the MAP may be the wrong tool to begin with, for high achievers who test well.

The SRI though, would still offer granularity at her higher range, and last her a few more years, at which point she'd burn through that too.

In other words, if we were running a middle school for gifted kids, I conclude we'd bypass MAP completely. Use SRI. And... well not sure what other tests but its a start. Once I get my kids Davidson Young Scholar mentor, I'll present them with this conundrum.

I'm on board with testing, and even 3x a year, as MAP is often used. Where it falls down is when the student maxes it out early. Well, its still useful for my daughter for math and science.

I see the SMI and a MRI from Scholastic for math. I guess I don't understand this industry and who are the big dogs that manufacture all these test products. I wonder if there is any way to take SRI independently of a school, if as I fear my kids schools prove too bloody minded to offer it.

You may wish to research terms such as common core standards, Pearson, college board, US Department of Education, including their history, direction/trends, and stated end-goals.

While many parents may tend to focus on "what's next" for our kids educationally, it may be important to raise awareness of the overall direction of education as a whole, and how this may be related to economic systems, including contemporary issues such as the burgeoning national debt. We are in a considerably different set of circumstances than many parents grew up in, therefore the country's economy may be seeking different skills and different types of workers going forward; This is reflected in the educational system, which essentially both prepares and sorts the workers.

Top-performing kids may not receive support/challenge, appropriate curriculum placement/pacing, the company of intellectual peers, or work in their zone of proximal development (ZPD) as the current focus in education may be bringing up the children at the bottom so that all children are performing at the prescribed common core grade-level standard, thereby closing the achievement gap and/or excellence gap.

This may be the situation faced by the OP, whose child began the school year reading at the 99th percentile and did not achieve expected growth throughout the school year.

Just wanted to get back to this thread as school is starting for us next week.

We were contacted by the principal and told that we will be placed into a class with one of the best 2nd grade teachers in the district.

I am concerned at this point because I can see after working extensively with DD over the summer that she is not where she should have been at this point. I feel she is behind and missing so much instruction the first year has really put her at a disadvantage. She will be placed with students who were in a very high performing class next year and I am not sure how she will do.

I keep seeing "If an elementary student has an ineffective teacher for even one year, a learning deficit can be measured up to four years later".

I feel that DD will never be able to catch up to these other children who received excellent instruction last year and by making this move now, the school is trying to save face.

So many anecdotes of ineffective teachers on here concerning high performing students. With the testing that we have available and the clear evidence of ineffective instruction, shouldn't we be seeing lots of cases of educational neglect? Would anyone here go so far as to sue a school district for their gifted students lack of instruction?

Shifrbv -- It looks like your DD may have a good teacher placement this year. If I were in your shoes, I would try to be cautiously optimistic and do all I could to foster beginning-of-the-year good will. I wouldn't recommend a lawsuit now, based on what you've described.

I have twins starting 10th grade. We've had a lot of teachers over the last 10 years, and some of them were crappy, but our kids are thriving in high school and performing at the top of their class. I know every situation is different, but I just wanted to let you know that one bad school year is not necessarily devastating.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on how things go.

This is great news, thanks for sharing.

Have you kept a list of what working with her extensively over the summer consisted of? For example, titles you read aloud, books she self-selected, conversations on what she read, and her relative interest/strengths/difficulties observed?

Is there any possible vision issue and/or learning difference/disability? For example, dyslexia?

What instruction, specifically, did other children have?

What is your source for this information?

Please be aware that there are other perspectives on this, such as:

Many gifted children achieve multiple years of growth in a short timeframe with appropriate curriculum and pacing.

What, specifically, did this excellent instruction consist of?

Is it possible there may be a positive reason for assigning your child to this teacher? For example, might this teacher's experiences help her to recognize any potential learning differences/disabilities and/or may this teacher have an approach which may be effective with your child?

Some may say this is because schools are generally focused on improving the performance of the students at the bottom.

What specific evidence do you have of ineffective instruction? In other words, have you eliminated all other possible explanations for lack of growth, such as vision issues, learning difference/disability? Does your child have an enriched home environment similar to classmates? Is there a pattern of ineffective teaching or educational neglect on the part of this teacher? Do you have documentation to support your assertions?

In general, a parent cannot make their case based on what they "feel" or by articulating their fears; they must prove wrongdoing (such as violation of existing legislation and policy). It is my understanding that if a parent attempts to sue a school district and does not win the case, they may be financially obligated to pay the school district's attorney fees.

Unfortunately for gifted students, the only thing that schools really need to do is teach the state standards, which are geared to "average" for each grade. So if a child is scoring 96th percentile on a test like MAP, they are well above grade level and the school does not need to teach those above-level standards. "individualizing" instruction seems to be optional, unless a student has a disability that makes them test in the below average range (according to our district). So even though I have not seen any progress with DD's writing in about 2-3 years, since she is able to pump out an average score on a test like the WJ, the school can say that they are doing their job and nothing needs to be individualized for her. Of course they CAN write an IEP for a child scoring in the average range (if there are discrepancies between scores), but it's all about doing the bare minimum that the State forces them to do. At the last IEP meeting I passed around the State standards for lang. arts/writing, and people started grumbling about them, saying they are "too hard". According to the State standards, DD is about 2 years behind, but tests like the WJ-ACH don't pick that up, since it only requires the student to write one sentence at a time. The teachers acted like they had never looked at the writing standards before. If I had had a tape recorder, it may have given me evidence for a lawsuit.

In your case, I think your DD is on the right track with a presumably good teacher coming up next year. She will probably quickly catch up to the other high-performing kids if she has any deficiencies.