Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums College Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be

From the linked article
Where do billionaires go to university?
By Sean Coughlan
BBC News education correspondent
29 October 2014

At most Ivies you cannot major in "business", only "economics". U Penn has an undergraduate business school, Wharton, which may attract aspiring investors. Cornell has a program in Applied Economics and Management. Princeton offers a major in Operations Research and Financial Engineering.

Interesting article, I wish it would've linked to the studies as reading the article may have raised more questions in my mind than it answered. Some may say it had a bit of a time warp or suffered from chicken-or-egg syndrome, for in one line we read that a US university created billionaires, immediately followed by a sentence that a large number of foreign billionaires attended US universities. That, plus the title, "Where do billionaires go to university?" raise the question - Did these families already have billions, prior to sending their offspring to US colleges?


Another interesting note about the timing and applicability of the studies, to providing current advice regarding choice of college:
Because they largely made their money in finance, possibly they were recipients of interest on loans.

That situation is a little more complicated than I used to think, though, if you read about it...

Anyway. Again, I have to insert the huge caveat that I did not watch the video. However, it sounded like it said that "2/3 of high school graduates enroll in higher education right after high school" followed by and "only a quarter of those that enroll will finish a bachelor's degree." This is a misleading way to present the facts (for one thing, many of "those who enroll" have no intention of receiving a BACHELOR'S degree) and I am instantly annoyed by anyone who would do it this way. The statistic of about 50-60% of students graduating in 6 years from 4-year colleges is widely known in education circles. To cut this to 25% is dishonest. (He might say "Well, I didn't mean 4-year colleges" but when you say "bachelor's degree"...Say what you mean and be accurate, even if it takes longer.)

I agree with ultramarina's observations, and as she has noted, this is not always the case . Furthermore, someone advising people whether or not to attend college should tell them to evaluate their own chances of graduating, rather than relying on averages (which the author misstated). A research-based tool for this is the Expected Graduation Rate Calculator, from the UCLA Higher Education Research Institute, which asks for SAT/ACT scores, high school GPA, and demographic information.

Not misleading if one reads the transcript and sees the sentences in context, not in isolation. Preceding paragraphs spoke of correlation of earnings with 4-year degree. Paragraph began with reference to 4-year degree. While students may begin at various types of institutions, only a fraction persist through to a 4-year degree (the type of degree under discussion at that point). Elsewhere the video suggests layering one's education... technical degree... bachelors... higher degrees.

It is helpful to familiarize one's self with the video or transcript prior to discussing it or disagreeing with it.

Regarding the advice given...

I understand that you may disagree with the college completion statistic which he included in his 2012 paper. However you may be making an apples-and-oranges comparison. He cites all who began post-secondary education... and persisted through to a 4-year degree, using sources dated 2005, 2006, 2011. You cite those who began seeking a bachelor's degree, at a particular institution, using a source dated 2012.

This isn't related to college completion, but it is related to how poverty affects enrollment in college.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ects-childrens-college-chances.html?_r=0

Thanks for this interesting link. I took into account that this was based on college enrollment for children born in the early 1980's, and my participation was evaluated to be in the 93rd percentile, with feedback that there was more equality than I guessed.

Kids going off to college today were born about 15 years later and times have changed. The economy has tanked, with a recession starting in 2008, largely affecting the "middle class". Those with lower SES are said to receive substantial subsidy and those of higher SES may have been somewhat inconvenienced. Combining this information with personal anecdotes, I would draw a very different shape to reflect current college enrollment.

I would be highly interested in seeing an updated version of this tool, utilizing current students' enrollment.

Personally, I find the 50-60% in 6 years stat rather shocking, so why embellish?

Here is what really happens:

--66% of HS graduates OVERALL enroll in some form of higher education
--37% of HS graduates enroll in 4-year colleges. Of those, 60% graduate in 6 years.
--29% of HS graduates enroll in 2-year colleges. Of those, 30% receive a certificate or associate's degree within 150% of the expected time to complete (eg, within 3 year for a 2-year program) Source: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cva.asp

The community college stats are fuzzy and dissatisfying by everyone's admission, though (hard to take non-degree-seekers and those who move on to 4-year schools into account).

ETA: Okay, I see that the author is focusing on the value of a bachelor's degree vs others, saying that a 4-year degree is seen as the end-all when not that many students can actually achieve it. I am not opposed to that message necessarily, but present your stats accurately, please. This is still a misleading way to make your point and very bad journalism. It is not the case that only a quarter of those who try to get a BA succeed.

Relevant: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/11/19/u_s_college_dropouts_rates_explained_in_4_charts.html