Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments reg school vs other options

Need help again1 My son who is gifted; hyper intense/ sensitive have attempted to school in reg ed( competitive school district). 5th grade presently -he is having major motivational and behavior issues this yr. Math which I am pretty sure he could be doing highschool math has gone to the way side. Principal and teacher think forget about the math we need to work on the bad behaviour. WISC score above 150( abstract reasoning sub tests all ceilinged). What do you think; suggestions. Plan on beginning EPGY math class next month

Hi Karen,
I'm sorry to hear that your little sweetie is having/making trouble but i'm so thankful he's not quietly being overlooked in his misery!

Will EPGY be inclass or at home or both? Your dime or the school's dime?

What are your alternatives? Is homeschooling an alternative? I know he's extraverted, but with the SI and the subchallenge, can you "take your ball and go home?" Sometimes it's easier than negotiating with a school.

Is private school a possibility? They you can do your negotiating upfront before you sign on the bottom line? (Do as I say, not as I do - LOL)

Can you just sit go to the school, tell the Principal that you want him to have a trial placement, say 6 weeks in 8th grade (ask for twice as much as you want) and tell him/her that you don't agree that he should work on his behavir first - would they deny braille to a visually impaired kid with bad behavior? My IRL girlfriend says - schedual the meeting for the end of the day, and let them know that you can sit there for as long as it takes them to say yes.

At this point you can approach the Middle School directly or the District. Those district people can be mean, so wear your flameproof suit. I can tell you that with an IQ of 150, you child can skip one or two grades and still do very well academically. If he does poorly it's as likely underchallenge as overchallenge. Socially it is a gamble anyway, but with the early indications you are getting now, your son's goose is cooked socially in his current setting.

There is always community college - they teach high school math and at a nice pace, Stamford has a whole online high school starting up. You can homeschool or use private school for a single year to get the placement right, then return to the public school at a reasonable guestimation of his appropriate grade level. Skim through Hoagiesgifted.com for ideas.

See also what are the rules on "just refusing to send him back to school until the school agrees to a better fit placement" - you don't want social services on your doorstep, but depending on the state, it's been know to work.

State everything in writing. Request everything in writing. Hire a suit to represent you. Take a weeks vacation from school to regroup. Most importantly -

ask your child what they think would be good, and then ask why.

good luck. I am cheering you on!
Trinity

Does your state have a "online charter school" system? then they pay for curricula and your son sets the pace - again perhaps as a temporary stop gap measure.

we have talked to the principal. She maybe helpful but I have concens in general that there is this tendency to try to diagnosis kids like this to fit into a pet( one that they shouldn't be in) I am at this point considering other options. My big question now is- Is this a common as far as kids who are on the more higher gifted range are more argumentative and express their boredom in a negative way to cause some excitment. Is it common for some teachers "not to get it"

I think that most teachers "don't get it". Has anyone ever tried seting a challenge for him? How did he react or how do you think he would react? My son in his younger years, when he was absolutely noy challenged (private school!) used to make elaborate paper projects (planes) under his desk during math. Then he was selling them during recess - a behavior totally not acceptable in a religious school.
Ania

no, i think most of his challenges in life so far have been set by him(self). he is very self directed at home. Continually busy with many of his interests( he has many)- point being that the principal sort of went down the aspergers path. I don't know of any asperger's kid who is/was good and enjoyed doing a vast number of things from athletics to music to academics to playing board games to back packing - i could go on; but he does need to be occupied at all waking hours. Lately the biggest charge at school is being bad. eg. two days ago he was annoying his neighbors in the class during a subject he was bored at, one of the kids told him to stuff a sock in it. he removed his shoe, his sock and then stuffed it in his mouth - boy did he get a response from the teacher- who went on about how disgusted she was and the rest of the class. Hmmm I wonder who is in charge in that class right now.

LOL at the sock in the mouth. That's really quite creative.

I agree with Ania that most teachers "don't get it." You have to remember that the typical teacher and school administrator have almost no training in identifying or dealing with gifted students. It's a safe bet that you know much more about gifted education than they do.

Have you talked to your son about what is going on at school and why he's acting out? Have you asked him what he would want to change about school if he could?

I have spoke with him. He stated that he started acting out because he was bored. Then is kind of spiraled out of control. I asked him about the sock incident and he stated well i was trying to determine if the kid was stating an idoim or not but just in case i followed his direction( from a kid that is so non conforming). The principal supposedly did her MS research in gifted X 15yrs ago. The issue i have is that in talking to her many of her ideas/concepts etc do not coincide with what the gifted person at the district level has told me, and what i have read myself. He is making conscious effort to be good X 2days because he knows that it is hurting his parents(probably the only reason)

A few thoughts from my own story that may be helpful... or not.

We pulled my DS out of school halfway through his K year because he was being so disruptive. We didn't know what was going on. The IQ tester told us that he didn't know what to do -but he did know what not to do: 'do not leave him in that classroom' was the only hard and fast advice he could give us. DS IQ is 'only' 145 - although he hit the ceiling on several subtests.

We did homeschool for a few months to decompress and we found his personality changing for the better. Last year, we found a private school that worked. (We skipped first grade). It involved half day in second grade and half in fourth. The split in his time was horrible for him and by the end of the year, we were on edge - but he still held together well.

This year, we have a wonderful third grade teacher who is handling him in the regular classroom with some enrichment and the chance to read in class when he gets too bored. He still gets bored and likes to wander the classroom. (Not sure why she is letting him do that!)

However, last year, there were concerns about ADHD. We had a pediatric neuropsychologist test him and we found that (a) no ADHD but (b) poor impulse control, poor self esteem, poor motor skills, poor organizational skills.

Those last things were adding up to him not 'acting' like a 'normal' gifted kid. We are trying to address those things now.

My recommendation - Yes, your son needs more mental stimulation. You need more information to work with the school or to even consider a different school. Find the money somewhere and get a fresh evaluation by someone who knows and understands gifted kids. The school thinks maybe Aspergers- get it ruled out. They think he is challenged - get achievement tests that show what grade he should really be in. etc.

There is no substitute for information.

I also recommend 'helping your gifted child soar' (or something like that) - which explains how often gifted kids differ from the stereotype of gifted kids. I also like Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children because the first chapter has a really great detailed description of some of the common behaviors and characteristics of gifted kids.


Mary

Karen -
For the record, DS10 duct taped his mouth closed in school at age 7. He felt that everyone wanted him to shut up.

I do think that gifted kids come in all varieties. There are some gifted kids who learn how to challenge themselves by putting more into the innane school work. There are others, like my son, who study the social environment, by doing outrageous things, to see what would happen. DS10, when understimulated, treats the classroom like his own private Skinner Box. Does in make waves? It does. Is it effective? We, his parents know that if we don't "ante up" then he will - so I'd say that's effective.

I won't go into details, but things that "everyone knows" are too gross to do, my son will do IF the expected payoff is big enough.

((eyes rolling))
Trintiy

Since you are in California I would recommend you sign your son up for a class at community college. By law California has a program for K-12 students to be admitted to take college classes. It is even free if you are in 9-12.

Our son took a physical anthropology class at 11 and he loved it. He is 13 now and he loves his psychology class even more. For gifted kids who can read people and control classrooms (and love science), psychology class is a perfect fit. Remember community college also offers math starting at pre-algebra. We saw a six year old sign up for Spanish this semester. Our son is 13 and there is a 14 and 15 year old in his math class with him this semester.

Gifted kids seek academic stimulation in an adult environment with motivated students and no childish games. You can find that at Calif. community colleges and it is just a matter of signing up. Highly recommended you give it a try as a supplement to school. If it goes well you can expand it.

DS13 had stomach aches in school and frustration at home, rather than acting out, but since taking classes at CC, he has never been late and never missed a day in 1 1/2 years and his attitude is completely different. He loves it.

--David E.