Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Immature or something else?

What is LOG?

"Level of Giftedness"

It's a shorthand commonly used on the forum to reflect how far from normative a person's cognitive profile is.

In children, it also tends to reflect the degree to which asynchronous development is likely to be a factor in parenting and educational settings.


For whatever it is worth, I have no idea what Coke's LOG might be. I'm not sure that IQ can be measured very accurately in corporate persons.

This, combined with having two teachers who've noted issues with distracted behaviors, would lead me to want to dig just a bit deeper into understanding what the testing showed, why a GAI was calculated, and follow-up on the psychologist's comments re the "GAI technically considered an LD". While it's true that it's not always straightforward or easy to get accommodations for students with high GAI, not understanding what's causing the discrepancy in scores that led to needing to calculate a GAI is leaving open the possibility that an undiagnosed challenge will cause frustration and underachievement in school, and oftentimes undiagnosed challenges *look* like a misbehaving or distracted or lazy student to a teacher who isn't familiar with either the diagnosis or the full picture of what's going on with the child.


I would want to know more details from the teachers re when he's acting distracted - look for clues in the type of work he's being asked to do. "Reading" class isn't just about reading - is he having to answer questions about a book on a worksheet? Is he being asked to read out loud? Is he working in a small group? There are many different activities going on in even a small part of the school day like reading, any one of which might be requiring a skill that's a challenge - but the only way to really see the challenge is to observe over a period of time and look for connections.


This is an example of why observing where behavior issues occur over time, and then looking at that in parallel with understanding what the results of testing are telling you is really key - it's not uncommon for kids to be distracted while waiting to play in a game, as well as other situations. So there's no doubt you'll see situations where you know, hey, this isn't a challenge, this is just a kid being a kid. Other situations, like the math facts, are not so clear. The skills required to play Minecraft or read a Wimpy Kids book are different skills than the skills needed to name math facts. It's possible that a discrepancy in testing might correlate to a situation you see where there are repeated challenges with behavior.


Which could mean there isn't an issue, or it could mean that he's not required to use the skill sets that are a challenge in those situations.

This is just going to be a complete guess (TOTAL guess lol), but the psych report you have mentioned


There are a few red flags I see here - first, you had a need to have him tested. This isn't a typical situation - most kids don't exhibit behaviors that lead to parents feeling they need testing. Second red flag - noting that there is no concern for ADHD. ADHD is only one of *many* reasons a child may be challenged and considered to be 2e. According to most of the private professionals I've spoken with, it should also be a diagnosis that is only arrived at after other diagnoses with similar symptoms have been considered and ruled out. Having a discrepancy in subtest scores on a WISC that is large enough to calculate a GAI (given that the test is an accurate reflection of your ds' functional levels), is *not* a typical situation. You've also had two teachers note issues in the classroom. The teachers may be off-base, but it's going to be worth your while to dig deeper into the situation.
It's possible it's just boredom, but fwiw, I would at least start by reviewing the report you were given post-testing by the neuropsych.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Not to be picky, but to offer a bit of explanation because you are new to this... The IQ tests consist of many subtests. Combined score is the Full-Scale IQ (FSIQ). Significantly lower subtest scores (often processing speed and working memory) may be 1) indicative of a learning disability 2) result in calculation of another score in addition to the FSIQ: the General Ability Index (GAI) which may be higher than the FSIQ (as the FSIQ may have been impacted by the low subtest scores in processing speed and working memory).

Many families encounter a practice of providing accommodations only if the child is performing below grade-level standards. However parents may successfully advocate to receive accommodations so that their child performs at their personal best (at the level of achievement indicated by GAI, generally above the grade-level standards). You may wish to read up on Wrightslaw and the book "From Emotions to Advocacy."

Thanks for clarification. The reference to statistical correlation between LOG and introversion. I have not seen such a study. Is there a report one can point to?

Looked back at your earlier post, referenced by PPs above, I see that there is a three SD difference between the GAI in the Very Superior range, and at least one representative subtest from each of the working memory and processing speed clusters, in the Average range but below the mean. (Can't tell if the whole WMI and PSI were calculated.) That is a pretty striking difference--big enough to make me suspect more than a typical gifted GAI/CPI split. Has your DS been assessed for anything beyond IQ? In order to make an informed judgement that 2e is not a likely explanation of the low WMI & PSI, you would need assessments of other areas, such as visual-motor skills (most likely in the context of an OT eval), auditory processing, and in-depth academic achievement (not a screening instrument like the WRAT-4), to name a few.

Based on what you've shared, there is insufficient data to determine one way or the other whether another exceptionality is involved, and some anecdotal information that suggests that there may be something not fully explainable by invoking age and LOG. You may wish to consider further assessment with someone who has 2e experience.

First, I very badly phrased what I was trying to say,,,,I suppose I should have actually looked at the report when typing instead of going from memory...

DS had very high (99th percentile) scores in all areas except Working Memory and Processing Speed, which were average (61st and 73rd respectively), thus the need to calculate GAI. What the psych actually said was that the difference between WM/PS and the other metrics because it was in excess of 30 points would "technically" constitute an LD. The psych said that these scores (WM/PS) were likely lower because he hasn't been challenged yet, and that part of his brain hasn't been developed. Hence the suggestion of working on something that doesn't come easy to him.


Very good advice! I think an email to the reading teacher may be in order, at least as a start!



There was more to why we had him tested. The behavior was simply the "last straw". We knew DS was advanced in reading, but we had no backup to that claim. His 1st grade teacher was holding him back horribly and we got nowhere in getting her to budge. My idea behind testing was that it would show that he is ahead of a typical child and we could lobby for change. We just didn't expect the scores to be as high (or as divergent) as they were.



I think my lack of proper phraseology (to quote Mayor Shinn) is the explanation to this one. Mea Culpa.

Good suggestion. DS was assessed by a psych with ample 2E experience. When deciding who to perform his assessment we researched. The psych we consulted has been published sufficiently that we could get a good idea of his background, he has written multiple articles on 2E, asynchrony and emotional needs. We are very comfortable that if additional testing to investigate the WM/PS scores were needed, he would have suggested them. He did do Woodcock Johnson Math testing. It showed he has an above average ability to perform paper and pencil math computations, but the score falls to below average when placed under timed conditions. He considered the possibility of a math LD, but felt it was more likely that DS has not been exposed to advanced math skills (that's a fact) and with exposure to advanced math skills his basic math skills would improve.

If this helps regarding WMI/PSI:

Digit Span - 9
Letter-Number Sequencing - 13
Arithmetic - 12

Coding - 9
Symbol Search - 14

Oh... pffft (blush). That's funny My bad.

Good to hear that you had an experienced evaluator. Presumably that profile was slow-but-accurate? All the same, I am not sure that I agree that the low math fluency score is due primarily to lack of exposure to advanced math skills. Advanced math skills per se do not raise math fluency. I would say that is a reversal of causality. In my experience, it's more that lack of math fluency for basic calculations can interfere with advanced math skills. I -would- buy that it could be due to a difference between his ability to calculate and his experience with pencil skills (based on age or interest, maybe handedness), especially as that is consistent with the lower Coding-vs-Symbol-Search score.

One other thought: do you know if the digit span was the result of a low digits forward and high digits backward, or evenly average?

In any case, it sounds like you have a good resource nearby, in case additional concerns arise as you monitor his progress. E.g., if the fluency and fine-motor speed scores don't rise naturally.

ETA: I can see that advanced math might give a child reason to master math facts, though, when simple arithmetic isn't engaging enough.