Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Understanding SCAT results

DS10 took the SCAT and STB last week, and I find the CTY website clear as mud.... I have the immediate results, but I am not quite sure what the norms are.

I don't yet have the mailed package, only the quick summary table they provide on the "MyCTY" website. Can someone who has done these tests lately confirm that what I am looking at on "MyCTY" is:

SCAT: I think they are giving me out-of-level percentiles, though it appears to be grade 8 for a grade 5 test taker? (maybe because the school year is almost complete?) It says:

Test Date 03/2015; Talent Search Year 2015; Grade 05; Test Form IX1; Test Norm 8

STB: I think for this one the percentiles are as compared to other, same-grade test-takers (not out of level?)


Finally, I believe the extensive raw data tables provided on the website (for both SCAT and STB) are all compared against other same grade CTY test-takers, again, not out-of-level against national norms? http://cty.jhu.edu/talent/after/about/

Appreciate any clarity anyone has! Thanks.

Here is my reading of what is there and only pertains to the SCAT.

Norms on the 'next day' results are from the full(er) population of 8th graders which spans the entire Gaussian distribution curve in terms of ability.

The prior test date results are normed against test takers supposedly in the top 5% where grade < 7. Understandably but somewhat counter intuitively, until you take the LOG of some of the early test takers into account, the percentiles ranking can actually slip down when measured against early taking grade peers.

Also, the tests vary in difficulty/different cohorts vary in ability as measured against a particular edition of the test - the percentiles 'wobble' a bit between sittings.

I do not know when the final 2015 grade normed percentiles will be released but I am expecting my DD10s percentiles to go down when that happens relative to the full 8th grade ones.

Make better sense or have I made it worse? LOL

Thanks madeinuk!

Funny enough, I was assuming DS's percentiles would be lower compared to the grade 5 talent search pool than compared to the grade 8 national norm - this is part of how I was trying to distinguish which numbers were which! (but perhaps I have a low opinion of national norms....)

So it makes sense to you that "Test Norm 8" means grade 8 norms, even though everything says two grades above?

I plan to advocate the h*ll out of his math results within the next week (long before I get the detailed CTY package), so I want to make sure I am correct in stating what they are. Thanks for your help!

Sorry, what I meant is what you understood before - I expect my DD10s percentile ranking to be lowered when the 5 th grade norms are complete as well.

I did end up clouding the waters instead of making things clearer - sorry about that :-(

no, no, you're good!

Good luck with advocating using the SCAT results Michelle - we never had much luck using them as we didn't have any specific list of what types of questions were asked, and no way to tie-in with what grade-level curriculum requirements were in our school district. The only school staff who were familiar with SCAT testing at all in our public schools were staff from the gifted department. Even in our private school where the staff was very pro-CTY and encouraged kids to participate, the encouragement was more for getting the kids to camps and to take classes rather than ever using the results for any kind of placement at school.

Sorry didn't meant to be negative at all - just suggesting to take whatever other evidence you have of ability/achievement with you when advocating

Good luck! Let us know how it goes

polarbear

A bit dated but check out Susan Assouline's (sp?) called something like Developing Maths talent for ideas on facts to base your case on..

Thanks both of you. Alas, I have no unrealistic expectations - no expectations at all, really, since our board is violently opposed to acceleration of any kind. I don't expect them to get the SCAT, but thought it would nonetheless help make the point that yes, he's at the top of the grade by the WIAT - and hey look, he's still at the top compared to kids three grades older. He desperately needs to learn how to cope with material he doesn't already know, and that ain't happening right now.

Mostly, all I hope to achieve is a little light bulb that says "oh. Maybe - just maybe - this kid isn't quite as good a fit with a standard classroom as we thought, and just possibly perhaps he actually does belong in a gifted program. And (and here I get really radical) just possibly maybe maybe perhaps we don't need to make him do all the grade standard math worksheets before he's allowed to do something ever so slightly more interesting".

Thank you for patience with this rant!

P.S. Susan Assouline's book (http://www.prufrock.com/Developing-...ntary-and-Middle-School-2nd-ed-P656.aspx for those who wish to follow-up) looks interesting - but just too depressing when there's not a thing in it implementable in our school system. sigh.

MichelleC - Just wanted to say that I feel your pain. Like you, I am hoping to use SCAT scores as one part of my advocacy for math acceleration, but I am not hopeful, either. (though I figure it can't hurt to add it). I will say that I have found Assouline's book to be interesting and useful despite our far-from-ideal school situation. Good luck!

Yup, really I just hope to plant a seed of doubt in the conviction that everything is just fine exactly the way it is. I don't expect miracle solutions, but I believe we could do a lot more, even within the limitations of our school system, if we could all simply agree on the basic premise that DS actually is a special needs kid who isn't currently getting everything he needed in a regular classroom.

DS is not a high performer in school, and that's really all they see. I'm sorting of hoping the SCAT/ STB is the cherry on top of the WISC and WIAT Sundae, sprinkled with abundant testimony of how differently he performs in everything he does outside of school as opposed to within...

Thanks for commiserations, Kombre. It always really helps to come here and feel not alone.