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    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I have to also wonder why Steiner's ideas caught on so well, whereas those of people like Alisdair Crowley really have remained fringe. It's a strange world.

    Right time, right place. Steiner came of age during the German idealism movement in philosophy, born of Rousseau's romanticism (don't think, feel!) and a mystical counter-reaction to the British empiricists like Locke and Berkeley. The German idealism movement produced Kant, Nietzsche, Hegel, and Marx, among others. So basically, Steiner was a man of his time and place, with ideas that, while completely wackadoo, were entirely in line with the particular brand of wackadoo that was all the rage.

    Crowley's brand of wackadoo was simply not in fashion.

    I guess the lesson to be learned here is, the best way to be an influential crazy person is to be crazy in a mainstream kind of way.

    aeh #208940 01/14/15 02:00 PM
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    Originally Posted by aeh
    No, no, no, HK, you are allowing her to work out her karmic debt by taking on the risk of vaccine side effects. If the cosmos does not allow her to develop autism as a result of childhood vaccinations, then clearly the risk alone was sufficient to work off the load, without the disorder itself. wink

    Well, I'll have to hope so, since the alternative is evidently oncogenesis at some future date.



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
    Tigerle #208961 01/14/15 06:02 PM
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    Originally Posted by Tigerle
    I am actually quite impressed - did anyone else but Steiner have an idea about brain hemispheres and speech centers in the brain at the time?
    Well, yes. Broca and Wernicke, to name two. No credit to Steiner. As Dude says, he was a product of his time and place, scavenging any ideas that were in the air and digesting them indiscriminantly into his own unique pulp.

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    I'm going to weigh in on this old thread for any other families searching for answers regarding Waldorf and the Gifted.

    First, my experience is with a 2.5 - 5 year old profoundly gifted child at a Waldorf school. We love Waldorf. The passion, specificity, and thoughtfulness of the teachers cannot be underestimated. They truly do care. That being said, it is not the school for the gifted.

    The first year, in nursery, was fine. The second year she moved up early (birthday was just shy of the cutoff) and half way through she began to cause trouble by being disruptive during circle time, lunch, and nap time. She was 4.5 at the time.

    She told us the following:
    "All we do is go outside, then inside, then outside, then inside... blah, blah, blah".

    "They don't teach me anything".

    "School isn't about reading, writing, or math"

    Amongst others. She became sad that she wasn't being taught to read and told us to get her a teacher. We did this of course, which helped. We also decided to move schools the next year.

    Waldorf's response is generally to not acknowledge the intellect at this age. They firmly believe in the emotional development as being the only thing to consider. Giving a kid logic puzzles or teaching them to read is not necessary. This fundamental misunderstanding of gifted kids is where the issues arise. The evidence is overwhelming. Gifted kids need challenges beyond the norm. And, in fact, their emotions suffer when their intellect is not fed. If they were truly concerned about the emotional side then considering the intellectual is paramount with these kids.

    Additionally, with one teacher to 22 kids in first grade there is not a lot of room for differentiation. All studies point to differentiation being of the utmost importance. While not Waldorfs fault (they are a not for profit) it is a downside.

    That being said, they were understanding and supportive enough to make changes in the teachers and the way they dealt with her disruption. Combined with the changes we made at home it was enough to get us through the year (and a new school).

    Bottom line... the tradeoffs are not worth sending your gifted child to a Waldorf school. If you want Waldorf then be waldorf at home and let a school that understand the gifted teach him / her.

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