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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,145
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Ah! Yes, I see. Thanks for clarifying, and I'm sorry to take so long to get us there! Thanks for your patience!  We have none of the talented stuff, so we don't have that sort of strict definition. The only programs we have are for gifted (aka GT) kids. (Such as they are...not much!)
Kriston
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Beware, gifted and talented can also be used to mean, IQ and performs to the subjective standards of teachers. It can and has been used to keep out "certain" kids who qualify by IQ but who the teachers don't like. And I'm not talking about strictly behavior issues, this can include kids who ask too many questions.
Remember last year, K teacher tried to block DD6 from going to enrichment because in her brilliant(heavy sarcasm) estimation DD was not "The cream of the crop". Then she tried to dismiss her IQ test as evidence because she "didn't understand it". And the teacher is the ultimate decsion maker in this regard. The principal blocked her, but if she wanted to go to the mat on it, DD wouldn't have gone to the K "gifted program" last year. Now granted, it's not all that great, but a heck of a lot better than learning her alphabet the whole day.
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Devil's advocate alert:
How would anyone know if a child is out of place in a gifted program? Clearly you couldn't be privy to this child's testing results. Results, no. However, I know if they're SNAP or not. If you run a SNAP program you sort of need to know who the SNAP kids are. Not scores tho, no. Did other kids end up being inserted into the program who shouldn't have been? More than several!
"Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to solve." -Roger Lewin
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Yes, that's one of the reasons I'm in favor of erring slightly on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion, 'Neato. I don't want the "this child is taking someone else's spot" used to keep out kids who are really GT for dumb reasons.
Kriston
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I'm out too, before I vomit all over my laptop.
Peace out,
Neato
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Ah! Yes, I see. Thanks for clarifying, and I'm sorry to take so long to get us there! Thanks for your patience! We have none of the talented stuff, so we don't have that sort of strict definition. The only programs we have are for gifted (aka GT) kids. (Such as they are...not much!) Oh man, I WISH the Talented stuff would go away. District is on the right track for keeping the terms VERY separate. Thank goodness. Talented programs are for kids and their parents who want to be involved in programs with their kids. A good thing, mind you, but it can be taken to the extreme and there are a handful of parents who will do just that. <sigh>
"Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to solve." -Roger Lewin
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 216
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But I think there is a grey area, and I'm okay with exploring that a little. People are not black and white...guess I would rather err on the side of inclusion just a wee bit than exclude kids who belong. In our district students who have borderline scores or have really high scores in a particular area (but not overall) are put in a "Challenge" pull-out. This is especially beneficial to the low-SES students who have not had a home environment conducive to intellectual development. We have found that many low-SES students later score in the gifted range after being exposed to enrichment activities in a challenge class for a year or two.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Ooh! I like that, TS! What a smart solution.
Kriston
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Joined: Mar 2007
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In our district students who have borderline scores or have really high scores in a particular area (but not overall) are put in a "Challenge" pull-out. This is especially beneficial to the low-SES students who have not had a home environment conducive to intellectual development. We have found that many low-SES students later score in the gifted range after being exposed to enrichment activities in a challenge class for a year or two. This made me smile! I hope there are other districts doing the same!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 216
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This made me smile! I hope there are other districts doing the same! I'm glad I could share something to make you smile, acs. Yes, I would love to see other districts adopt this policy. Identification of minority, ESL, and low-SES students is a big topic right now in the academic GT community so hopefully this type of policy will become more widespread.
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