Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment asynchronous cognitive development and dyslexia

I didn't want to hijack Lepa's thread, but I had a question about this quote from AEH:

"However, at this age, cognitive development is still quite fluid, so it is not at all unreasonable that this might represent asynchronous development."

AEH - Could you expand on your thought here? As my DS(now)7 (happy birthday sweetie!) has struggled, one thing I have wondered about is how asynchony applies to particular academic skills. We often hear about how PG kids can be wildly out of sync with respect to social/emotional issues versus intellect. And we hear that the further out on the bell curve they are, the more we can expect to see struggles with this.

But what I have wondered is whether the asynchrony may also apply to particular academic skills. For example - is it possible that stealth dyslexia is sometimes actually later development of the part of the brain that does that symbol translation task? And so stealth dyslexia is really the kid's brain saying "I'm not ready to read yet. But if you're going to force me to try, I'm going to have to do it my way, not yours. Because my brain doesn't support that symbol translation thing yet." And the further out on the bell curve they are, the more we might expect to see effects of this type of asynchrony?

And then the knock down effect - because the stealth dyslexic kid is forced to create a workaround, and never really learns the symbol translation bit, reading craters at some point in the academic career.

Or, if they're lucky, the stealth dyslexic does somehow pick up the symbol translation bit (maybe being re-exposed at the time the brain DOES develop for this task) and the reading/writing manifestations of dyslexia disappear.

But in this case - the stealth dyslexic kid was never actually dyslexic. Just asynchronous in the cognitive development needed for symbol translation, etc. Obviously, this would be important in finding the right way to support a given child's growth.

I think there is precedent for this. For example, babies don't have object permanence (e.g., when the toy gets put under the blanket it no longer exists). And I think I recall learning that kids don't have abstract thinking until a certain age, so can't really do algebra until this cognitive ability develops.

Maybe this relates to the chunk learning I've seen in DS and heard about in other PG kids. He was basically ignorant of what written numbers meant until suddenly he wasn't. Within a few days, he learned numbers up to 10 and could also add and subtract.

And - yes - I'm wondering because my stealth dyslexia assessed DS is suddenly sounding out words like phonics is the most natural thing in the world. And this before we sorted out how do deliver dyslexia therapies to him in any form at all.

Thanks for any thoughts you have, This is all so difficult ....

Sue

My DS8 has the asynchronous, wrong tool for the job seemingly due to an early limitation sort of thing (in particular for him a vision limit) where he taught himself whole words patterns rather than decoding. That mode seems to have a direct impact on writing, too. Whether this is long-term diagnosable as a "and that's the way it is" sort of thing (i.e. dyslexia or dysgraphia) or a phase he needs to break-through we don't know yet.

There are brain development aspects that if they miss critical development periods become significantly more difficult later. But when a HG+ kid basically lives in a world of epic paradigm shifts, you kinda get caught up waiting for the one secret thing to click and tada.

"a world of epic paradigm shifts" - yes. That is a great way to capture it.

DS7 also had been using whole word patterns rather than decoding. But literally in the past couple weeks, he seems to have jumped on to decoding. We see the impact on reading. Haven't really looked at the impact on writing. If you don't mind sharing - Are you working on assessment? Or letting things develop for now?

I feel like I have whiplash trying to understand what is going on with DS. Just when I think we're getting close to a plan for him, things go off in a totally different direction.

We are letting things develop, the school is always eager to help, but they express far less concern about his writing and spelling than we and slowly ever more so he does. His reading is doing fairly well as he just remembers the meaning and recognition of any word he is presented the first time.

Reading about the "Words Their Way" series has me sorely tempted to try and get the one that gets into roots and word combinations and such as I think his brain would latch onto decoding that way rather than traditional phonetically up.

I don't know what our line in the sand is, either, though my instinct is by the end of this school year something needs to improve.

That is very much what I meant. There is no obvious reason why social-emotional asynchrony should be the only aspect of their development that doesn't fit in the box.

Reading, in particular, is a complex skill requiring multiple factors to be in place before it becomes operational. If one were to break out the individual cognitive, emotional, and executive function skills necessary for effective reading, and compare the development of a GT child in each area with that of an NT child in the respective areas, I think we might find that some stealth dyslexics are not so much behind in some areas, but so far ahead in other areas that they developed workarounds while waiting for the last needed skill to catch up. It is already known from fMRI research on dyslexics that they use an atypical cognitive approach to decoding ("wrong" if you will). It is also known that one can re-train them, to some extent, to decode differently ("normally"), and that this does have payoffs in terms of reading fluency (and consequently, comprehension). This is the objective of all the LB and OG therapies we talk about constantly for treating dyslexia. Of course, after a certain point in brain development, it is much more difficult to alter these patterns. It is also difficult to find trial words to "force" the application and practice of decoding skills sufficient to automatize orthographic mapping, when an individual has already memorized an enormous sight vocabulary using what would normally be a highly inefficient memory method, but which works with an exceptional rote memory.

I am concerned about stealth dyslexia for DS7 because of his writing and spelling even though he is grade levels above in reading. He has dsygraphia, so I am having a hard time understanding what could be the root problem. Is it just dsygraphia or something more, too?

A few questions...
-- DS has terrible spelling, and his teacher was surprised at how poorly he does given his reading level. I have noticed that when he is writing sentences, his spelling is generally much much worse than when he is spelling a single word such as for a search engine or spelling practice. I'm wondering if when he is writing he just doesn't want to slow his brain down enough to spell correctly. Has anyone else seen this? It is almost like he just wants to get the words down as quickly as possible and be done. Plus, because he is dsygraphic, I know that a lot of brain power is being used for the handwriting and perhaps there just isn't as much left over for spelling?

-- DS struggles at times with sounding out unknown words. He knows his phonics sounds, but I think again he just doesn't want to slow down to put it all together. He is great at looking at a word and guessing the pronunciation based on the context around it. Could this be again that he just doesn't want to take the time to slow down and really figure out the word?

-- DS is a perfectionist and has low coping skills for challenges (working on that!), and it seems when he can't do something easily he doesn't even want to try. Could the spelling issues be because it is harder work for him, and he is just giving up?

Also similar to the OP, I'm wondering if this could all just be asynchronous development and at some point it will all just come together for him. He is definitely very asynchronous is many other ways.

Hi aeh,

Thanks for your reply. Much to ponder in it. First - it's quite a relief to get a direct answer on whether asynchrony applies outside the social/emotional arena. It always made so much sense to me that it would. But I've had a hard time finding on-point articles/research.

Regarding this: "Of course, after a certain point in brain development, it is much more difficult to alter these patterns." Do you have any sense of what that certain point is? Of course we're dealing with non-neurotypical kids anyway, so I guess ages wouldn't work. But developmental signs or anything? I'm looking for my panic point!

Regarding this: "It is also difficult to find trial words to 'force' the application and practice of decoding skills sufficient to automatize orthographic mapping, when an individual has already memorized an enormous sight vocabulary...." That's exactly us. The only reason I know DS7 is sounding out words is that he's started doing it out loud instead of skipping a new word or making me read it. Bless those complicated Magic the Gathering cards!

I guess there are ever larger/longer words we can use for phonics practice. It does seem funny to be practicing phonics using my old organic chemistry textbook. FYI however, it's useful for showing that little details are important (ethane is a very different critter from ethene!).

Thanks as always,
Sue

Hi Blessed Mommy,

Just replying to give you some support. I'm pretty sure our kids are similar. DS7 reads like a champ. But last night he spelled "try" as c-h-r-i-e-y. I guess if you say it over and over, and your Mom is a little twangy with her diction, you could hear c-h-r rather than t-r. But I can't really rationalize the i-e-y!

And - when DS has an idea, the words pour out of him so fast and furious that I would even have trouble taking notes to keep up. When he is explaining something in public in his rapid fire style, there are always raised eyebrows and smiles. And he cannot be slowed down or interrupted until he finishes his thought. So I'm sure your instinct about not wanting to break from a gallop to a trot, just for the annoying mechanics of writing, is spot on.

It's a wild ride we are on!
Sue

The point beyond which it becomes difficult to change an individual's decoding approach does indeed vary a great deal, and is not going to be the same for a GT individual. A general rule of thumb is that most automatic processes are easier to alter in the pre-pubescent years, but it is not as set in stone as some other cognitive processes, as, if you look at research on adult literacy instruction, it is evident that humans can learn to read effectively well past the point that the brain has matured globally, though with considerably more effort (and some plasticity is still present for quite a long time, as adults who have experienced brain injuries can adapt to some extent).

So I think the bigger issue for altering reading skills is that it is so much easier to revert to one's old, inefficient methods than to practice optimal decoding skills, unless text includes a great deal of novel vocabulary. Hence the value of old o-chem textbooks! It's a question of creating circumstances in which the effort of fighting one's ingrained habits is more worthwhile than battering away with brute-force-memorized-vocabulary, guessing from context, or some other non-orthographic/non-morphological method.

BlessedMommy,

This pretty much describes my #2. Spelling in isolation is better than spelling in dictation, which is better than spelling in applied, self-created sentences, which is better than spelling in paragraph composition. We are able to have beautiful handwriting at this point, especially when doing dictation, but, just like with spelling, it all falls apart in composition.

Your instinct is right on the money. So much cognition has to be diverted to the physical handwriting process, that there isn't much left for spelling. If you actually want thoughts and ideas to be conveyed, well then handwriting and spelling rather go by the wayside. The only place where I would shade it slightly differently from you is that I'm not sure I would describe it as the brain not wanting to slow down enough to spell correctly. I think it's more that there isn't enough working memory and processing power left to do letter formation AND spelling AND organizing thoughts AND constructing language.

Something similar happens with decoding novel vocabulary. If you have to consciously transform graphemes to phonemes, and then blend them, it doesn't leave much mental energy for understanding the overall text. It's way easier to guess the meaning of the word from context and move on. In a fluent reader, the process of converting graphemes to phonemes, or calling up whole morphemes, runs so smoothly and automatically that it doesn't really use problem-solving-type cognition, which can then be reserved for comprehension.

As long as he attains all levels of phonological awareness skills, and has sufficient opportunity to practice them to automaticity, eventually it is likely that orthographic mapping will become more efficient for him, and decoding will become less of a guessing game. It is possible, btw, that your DS still has some gaps in PA, as knowing the phonemes and being able to blend, segment, and manipulate them are not the same thing.

I would not be surprised if the perfectionism and the spelling/sounding out issues play into each other. He knows he can comprehend and communicate at a much higher level than he can perform the associated basic skills. And that that is not typical. The relative deficits hold him back from strengths, which is understandably quite frustrating. It also often contributes to children doubting their higher abilities, and thus being even more reluctant to expose their weaknesses by struggling through those skills in front of observers.