Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy As my son would say, "epic failure"

So, my DD6 started 1st grade at her new gifted/high achieving magnet school and is done with all her assessments at school. We met with her new school several times to advocate for her and finally they agreed to give her the 2nd grade end of year math test. Her teacher also gave her the 1st grade test first which we had agreed ahead of time that they would not do. I guess the teacher changed her mind.
She bombed the 2nd grade test despite knowing most of the material. DD told me that she was trying to do the large sums in her head and refused to right it down then left it blank. Then she made several errors that I am positive she knows the correct answers to. She said she couldn't concentrate due to rest of class being in circle time.
Teacher told us she is well placed in her classroom and she is only in the top third in math ability, therefore in no need of subject acceleration at this time and feels she does not need any assistance from our DYS consultant. This school does have very high expectations for writing in math and in truth she would struggle with that. Then she ended our meeting basically implying that we all feel our kiddos are a special snowflake but truly there are plenty of bright if not brighter kids like her and to stop worrying!

Yikes, I am totally feeling like a failure right now. And ashamed to admit that I am even questioning if she should be a DYS. All I have accomplished is to appear like a pushy tiger mom in the eyes of her teacher. I do not want to push her above what she is capable of.
Do you any of feel like this sometimes? I feel guilty that the only real enrichment we did was reading to her a lot. We have a high number of kumon kids who are offspring of engineers.

Don't beat yourself up. She's a little kid, and little kids don't have the perspective that's necessary for them to understand why they need to do well on assessments like this one. She has no idea about school or how it works yet, so from her point of view, the test may just have been dumb or irrelevant --- even if you told her it was important.

My own DD will be 10 soon and is still struggling with the need to write stuff down and work methodically in order to avoid making trivial mistakes. It's normal, it's developmental, and she has to learn for herself. She'll be taking an assessment next week, and I'm working hard with her and trying to help her understand why she shouldn't try to do big calculations in her head. It's simply too easy to make mistakes. The message is sinking in, but she's still young and impulsive. It's normal for her age.

As for questioning her abilities, don't. From what I've seen over the years, the idea that HG+ kids sail through getting flawless results is something of a myth. IMO, having a high IQ makes you capable of learning certain things. It doesn't mean that it's going to be easy! Getting past impulsivity, lack of perspective and impatience comes with time. Talent is critical to success, but other factors (like the ones I noted above, for example) are important to being able to develop it. IMO, these things aren't usually innate. Plus, much of them has to come from within --- such as when a person decides she wants to achieve something and decides to do what's necessary to reach the goal. You can help your daughter and ensure that she knows she has a special ability, and your support will allow her to develop what she needs to really blossom.

As for the schools, meh. Welcome to the (unhappy) club. So sorry to have you with us, but at least there are people here who understand.

Is the teacher basing that statement just on that one test where she spaced out, or other tests as well? If she is DYS I assume you have achievement scores? Have you shared those with the teacher?

Sorry to hear about the attitude of the teacher. We have encountered that type of thing and it is frustrating, esp. when you know what your child is capable of and they only see the data they want to see rather than the whole picture. One thing that ultimately helped was the above-level computerized testing which was done on him alone. Normally it's not done til second grade. Of course we had the problem where DS refused to write and did everything in his head (he was in first grade), but he still did well and it showed that he had mastered many concepts at a 4th-6th grade level.

Sounds embarrassing for you both! Going back to basics, I know you haven't had time to build up much trust with this school yet, but what is it that makes you think your DD is *not* well placed in maths right now? In the past you've described her as not especially mathy, not having a passion for numbers, reluctant to learn times tables etc. Might she benefit from a consolidation year? That wouldn't in any way contradict her being HG+.

Thanks Val, wise words - I will keep them in mind!

Blackcat, yes, just one test and I did shared them with the teacher when we met initially requesting the 2nd year testing. She scored 99.7% percentile in math for 1st grade norms. Yes, computerized testing would have been preferable as she speed through 2nd grade EPGY material in a very short space of time. I showed her the report but it didn't stand for much.

Colinsmum, yes, very embarrassing but more frustration! I have posted that DD is not especially mathy in the sense that she is not at 4th 5th grade level and she doesn't have a passion for numbers, but she picks up concepts very quickly. She just can't seem to get past memorizing the tables. Prior to meeting the teacher I printed off the 2nd grade state standards to see how she would do and she missed a couple of questions.
Mostly the issue is that now with common core, and more so with gate standards in this school, she must be able to write down the solutions in a clear concise manner and "prove it". True, she needs to work on the written portion; this will need to second nature to her if she is to continue at this school. I just know she is going to be bored and frustrated.

It didn't help that by the 4th day the teacher emailed to inform me that she needed to move DD from the back of the room to the front due to behavior issues. DD has been talking out of turn, interrupting the teacher and drawing on her skirt instead of paying attention. She has improved greatly after being moved. As Val said, the impulsivity and impatience is a struggle for her.

Thanks for letting me vent

slammie- I completely know where you're coming from. High IQ doesn't correlate with making good decisions, having emotional self-control, or attention to detail (at least not in my house).

There are moments when I absolutely question whether DS7 belongs in DYS- sometimes there are things he "knows" how to do, but freezes on due to anxiety and emotion. There are all kinds of inconsistencies- and we occasionally get calls from teachers too (esp. for goofy, disruptive behavior).

I want you to know that you are not alone. We have resolved math for the moment with enrichment at home. It works fairly well in the earlier grades-- but admittedly will be an issue when DS gets to be older (if he doesn't slow down). We're just not crossing that bridge until we come to it.

Maybe the grade level math will be okay-- it may be a bit boring, but it may teach your DD to think through "how" she solved the problems- without the pressure of more difficult math. DS7 does a lot in his head too- it's impressive most of the time until he makes a careless error and becomes upset. We're currently working on some things that DS needs to understand- and it's hard to understand without seeing all of the steps.

slammie, don't start doubting your DD, but if math is not her strongest area, and she is already in a gifted school - she might actually be OK as placed for a little while.

First, most 6-year-olds are not very test-savvy. I think your test results with a 6-year-old will depend on many factors other than a child's ability - one-on-one testing is probably best, but hungry, tired, anxious, or distracted - can throw it all off.

DD9 DYS wasn't all that interested in math at age 6. Her passions were reading and science. She also did not enjoy memorizing math facts (WM is not her strength, either). She always made it into the top math group, but I never thought of her math skills as particularly impressive. Some time last year she really started making some leaps in math, and is now more clearly one of the top math students in her rather large grade (and possibly very high a couple of grades up - which I honestly find amazing, since I know other students spend much more time on math than DD does), but it is still not her favorite subject. So I guess the moral of the story is - give her some time.

BTW, my DD was sometimes impulsive, immature, and bossy as a 1st grader...I was almost more worried about that, than I was about her seeming quite bright (and to be fair, she hadn't been tested yet - so I did not know what you know about your DD). She has fortunately matured, but she had quite a bit to work on other than just academic skills at that point.

What is it with 6-year-olds and refusing to write things down??? Ugh - just mentioned this in another thread - DS6 recently took the WIAT, and would not write things down. Not even when he was told he could. Somehow, he still did incredibly well, but playing human calculator is eventually going to cause him to make errors. Still - they are SIX!!! Also, next to a mathy boy, like my DS - my uber-verbal 6-year-old DD would have looked like a math slug at age 6. It's not that she didn't have the ability, but next to a child more interested in math - she simply didn't have the knowledge that comes with applying oneself in math (that seems to be developing now, though). Remember that these kiddos are capable of huge leaps and that they don't always have even development. Hang in there, slammie!

I agree with this, and also counsel patience. I have a 6yo too, and he's not extremely interested in math despite seeming quite competent in it (and being a chess whiz, so clearly there's some nonverbal stuff in there). He also seems a little erratic with calculation skills, sometimes extremely able and other times telling me that 120 plus 120 is 140, etc. I also have the benefit of having an older child who has sort of had fits and spurts with talent and development, though. She may take a little while to find her feet in this area, but it doesn't mean the ability isn't there.

Don't feel like a failure and don't question her DYS status. It is possible that both Davidson and the gifted magnet may be correct in their respective perspectives at this point in time. It may simply be that your DD does not have the writing skills, working memory, executive functioning, concentration, and/or maturity to rise beyond these engineers' kids at this point in time. There is no harm in waiting a year or more until the teachers get to know her before trying to accelerate her at school. I waited until 2nd grade before accelerating DS the first time partly due to maturity and handwriting issues and I truly don't believe that any harm was done.

Ok, I'm taking a deep breath. Thank you all, seriously, for making this journey so much easier to navigate, for your words of wisdom and experience. I think I got a bit bent out of shape when I met with the educational psychologist who strongly recommended a skip now and reading a nation deceived, etc.
It's so helpful to read your responses. Thank you!

Hang in there, Slammie. My DS6 sounds so much like yours. We would be going through the same thing if we were in public school- last year was a nightmare. It's important for others to learn that these kids don't present as high achievers. I hope it all settles soon for you both!