Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Gessell Testing Results for Kindie. Help!!!!

Hi All, I am sorry this probably isn't really gifted related. But I need help! It is about my Gifted-DS's little brother (DS5) (who we do not know yet if he is gifted but I can tell you this kid will score HIGH on PRI for sure). DS 5 turned 5 on at the end of March (very end of the month so he has been 5 for 3 months). We are in a school district that is VERY big on encouraging/insisting on red-shirting. It was not too much of an issue with my older DS because his birthday is like 3 days after the cut-off so he was nice and old for the grade.

So this is how DS5 did on his Gessell test:

Cubes: 6 years old
interview: 5 1/2 years old
Name: 5 years old
Numbers: 4 1/2 years old
Copy Forms: range 4 1/2 to 5 years old
Incomplete Man: 5 years old
Naming Animals: 5 years old
Interests: range 4 1/2 to 5 years old
Overt Behaviors: (blank)

The tester recommended holding him back a year! So now my husband wants to hold him back a year! Which I am totally supportive of when the kid needs it or is young for the grade or has some asynchronous development. But these results suggest to me he is pretty much on target. And with his birthday the way it is there is no reason to have him be THAT much older than everyone. Plus I feel he is ready to learn more and not do the same old stuff he just did all year.

Can anyone weigh on this? Does anyone know about this tests and what these results really tell me? Thanks!

When is the age cut-off? He wouldn't be young for grade here, and I would avoid the crazy red-shirting pressure like the plague if there is even the slightest chance he could be gifted like his brother. We have red-shirting pressure here, too, and it even worse with boys.

To be fair, I know NOTHING about the Gessell test.

You have to be 5 by September 1, 2014. He is 5 now and has been since March. The results just do not seem to warrant that kind of age gap, ykwim? I'm not really sure on giftedness - most of the time I think bright but not. He's got fabulous executive functioning skills. Really one of those good kids who enjoys doing things "right" like putting his clothes in the dirty clothes basket, putting the empty cartoon in recycling when he finishes the juice/milk/water in it, etc. But he just does not seem to be a deep thinker like his brother and just not verbally gifted like his brother. His brother is so gifted verbally that I thought this DS was delayed- turns out he is average- above average. But he is amazing on a computer, absolutely amazing with puzzles(all kinds, too, like block puzzles, tanagrams, regular puzzles) - does puzzles several years above him. And is very interested in the "how" things work and happen (as opposed to the "why" like his brother). He seems to have great fine motor skills. Anyway he certainly does not seem like he wouldn't be ready to me and his pre-school teachers (who have had him for two years now) think he is more than ready and rave about what a joy he is to have in the classroom.

For this tests it does sound like he "threw" some things... For example, he knows my husband (his dad) is an engineer (and has said he wants to be one too like him) but when asked "what his dad does" during the test, he talked about how his dad is really good at video games. LOL. As for me all he knows is that I work on the computer when I do work. he doesn't know I am lawyer b/c I do not think I have ever told him . In his defense I work from home on a consulting basis so I am very often "not working" and being a sahm. When I am working I am just on my computer (b/c I do everything remotely).

It sounds a bit daft to me. If you are in the US (?) then will that make him 6.5 before he starts K and he will be able to vote before he leaves high school. Here he could legally vote, marry and drink while still being told off for not doing his homework. I know a lot of kids turn 18 in their last year but being 18 the entire year seems wrong somehow.

The only problem is that if every other parent does hold their kid back then he will start off behind the others. But if he is gifted he will catch up.

Oh wow, if that is the cut-off, he won't be young AT ALL in K. We have the same cut-offs as you do and I have one late-May, and one late-June and they are both probably some of the best students for their respective grades. In fact, we might be needing acceleration soon. That is red-shirting gone crazy, IMO - just based on your family Hx, I'd almost need my DC to be DELAYED (and I'm not hearing that), to agree to holding-back. JMO.

The three subtests that he scored below five years on include two that are fine motor-related (writing numbers and copying shapes), and one that is qualitatively scored using a rubric. I would not worry too much about them, as writing is likely not an emphasis in a play-based preschool.

OTOH, the research on red shirting is uniformly negative in its long term outcomes, including increased risk of dropout, especially in boys. Link to summary of research:

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/instruction_curriculum/retentionho_educators.pdf

I don't mean that anyone who's done it has doomed their kid, but just that the research most certainly does not support the practice, except in exceptional cases. Your engineer husband might appreciate some data.

Oh, and the Gesell should be viewed as a screener. It's really supposed to identify kids who may need support, not be used as an entrance exam, especially in public schools, which are mandated to educate every child who makes the age cut-off.

I don't know much about the Gessell test, but if you haven't done so already, do confirm with the tester or even your DS whether he completed the test and what he thought of it. If he wasn't impressed with the test he may not have put in his best effort.

One of my DS thought the test he was given for his kindergarten testing was boring, told the teacher who administered the test so and refused to do some of it. He still did well but obviously his test results had to be taken with a grain of salt.

And I should mention the most important aspect of the GDO, which is that it is not a deviation measure like most of the other instruments we discuss, and is, instead, based entirely on the notoriously poor age-equivalent ("developmental scale").

Additionally, the standardization sample was not representative of the population at every age band, with pretty significant skewing at both the age 3-4 (over sampled for African-American) and 4.5-6 (over sampled for white) ranges. They didn't have enough valid protocols to use the 2 yo and over 6 yo ranges. This is all, as they acknowledge themselves, because they used a convenience sample instead of properly sampling nationwide.

Basically, this instrument has very poor psychometric properties, and shouldn't be used for high-stakes decisions like retention or late entry, just for screening (if anything).

There are always special circumstances, but as a general rule I'm more in favor of K retention than late entry. IME this usually makes more sense, especially if you think your DS can keep up with the work demands (some worksheets and a fair amount of sitting quietly and attending, but still a good amount of movement and play).

Is the tester from the school district and was the testing mandated? If not, I don't see why you need to hold him back. In our very high performing school district, there were so many kids who did not read or write in english because it was not their first language and they did not know the alphabet either. They all seemed to pick up reading, writing and numbers fairly quickly in K.
I personally don't like the idea of keeping a child with no known issues in a preschool beyond age 5. My child was bored to tears in the preschool and he also had a late March birthday. In his K class, he was one of the oldest kids (a couple of them had Jan birthdays) and he was able to handle all the work easily (except handwriting, which was not taught in his classroom).
If your husband has issues with K entry, let your child review some "getting ready for K" type workbooks and perhaps some Singapore Math EarlyBird/essentials, Miquon and some handwriting practice in the summer.