Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Helping. How much is too much?

A while back I wrote in asking for advice on how to help my kindergarten daughter who was very interested on writing a book about children who worked in fabric mills at the turn of the century.

How to Facilitate Research for Young Children

I received great advice. It was the first time she'd ever shown such a consuming interest in a subject, and she's strong going strong. At this point, we've read for weeks about mill workers and she's now moved on to bootblacks and flower makers and kids that worked on the Empire State Building, oyster shuckers...She'll find an idea in one book and then want to explore it further. Now she wants her book to be about children under the age of 13 that work in a number of different industries. I think it is completely cool, and it's been really fun to explore this with her.

I am terrified about pushing her. At this point, I get her books and have have given her notecards. I tell her that if she wants me to read the books to her to let me know and that I'm happy to write anything down for her--she just has to tell me what to write. So while I am there for her, there is no pressure from me for her to study this stuff.

So she has no desire (and limited ability) to write or draw, tons of things written on notecards, a humongous amount of material with no organizational strategies. The other day she was telling me about her book, and I mentioned that putting information into chapters was a way of sorting: you've got blue and red, stars and hearts. Do you sort by shape or color? She seems to know what she wants, but she doesn't seem to be ready to stop researching any time soon--and honestly, I don't know if she has the ability achieve the rest of this by herself. How much help should I give her?

I don't want to push anything on her, but if I just leave her completely to her own devices and if she can't reach her goals because she doesn't have other skills am I doing a bad thing? A good thing? Any resources on how to handle this?

For what it is worth, I think I'm extra afraid of pushing because she is really struggling in school and I push there. She's way ahead in reading and struggling with writing and drawing, so she has official homework in those areas. Plus we've got her in OT and yoga and karate to help her develop her motor skills. She's totally game because she's a laid back people pleaser, but all of if just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Trying to balance her interest in these strong areas with my guilt about trying to "fix her" in the weak motor areas (that I see starting to cause her harm) is leaving me really confused and hesitant.

Oh yeah, and does anyone know if kids did anything with catching lobster in Maine and how much money they would have made doing that? If so, let me know. :-)

I would restrict myself to asking questions, and helping with parts she can't do herself, but only at her direction and request.

They can be planning questions: What will you do with this research when you have enough information? Will you make a way to show that research to someone? Who should see it? But I wouldn't make any suggestions about what format the next steps should take. Let her own it completely.

I would lean more toward giving tools than toward doing it for her, always. Especially if she is struggling in other areas, let her own the output of her work.

Does she have a writing disability, and if so, is school accommodating appropriately?

I think helping her organize her research could be a useful learning experience for her. I would just keep in simple. Perhaps folders or boxes to sort the note cards into.

I suspect at this point her actually writing a book might be a bit beyond her ability and I would let her dream about writing the book but not push her nor expect it to materialize any time soon.

DeeDee: Her father is dysgraphic. We are not sure if she has a writing disability or not yet, but she definitely resists writing and drawing. There are no grades yet, so her grades are not being affected. Right now her resistance to writing and drawing is being treated by her teacher as discipline problem (not doing work). Test scores are high, and she's exceeding learning objectives in all categories. School won't accommodate until there is a problem. Bullying, loss of confidence, seeing herself as a bad kid, those don't count as problems. But they stress me out, which is why I think I am conflicted--I do want her to feel successful in the areas where she does well, and that stuff just isn't covered in school yet.

Bluemagic: Obviously, writing a book is way above what she can do. The adult book quote is what she said, not me. I am fine with her just dreaming about writing a book. But she does seem driven to execute. I wonder, based on what I wrote above in response to DeeDee, if stopping her there is a good thing, or just another failure to add to the list. (I can think, but I can't do.)

DS6 sounds similar. He will write books, or take notes for future books. Could you perhaps put all of the note cards together (once she's done) to make a rough draft for her, so she feels some accomplishment? Could she write a blog about the topic? My son's new obsession is a blog. He doesn't have to type much, just a little bit a day, and it seems to satisfy this need at the moment.

There is also speech to text software so down the road perhaps that would work?

In that case:
--it's not too soon to evaluate. I'd look for a reputable neuropsych and look closely for writing disabilities and fine motor disabilities of all kinds.

--it is worth turning things around at school ASAP. The hit to self-esteem is real and can be lasting.

--I now see. I would absolutely scribe for her if she wants to write a book. Get her comfortable dictating work and putting sentences together, IF that is what she wants to do. Those are excellent writing skills. (Not pre-writing-- putting ideas into words is writing.)

I am so relieved to read this thread. My DS6 has trouble organizing his thoughts as well. He can write and draw, but organizing and communicating ideas just aren't as sophisticated in his writing as they are when speaking to him. He is obsessed with the Titanic and the escapes from Alcatraz. We've provided books, documentaries, movies, whatever supported the interest. I am constantly on Wikipedia answering his questions. We would love for him to do something with that knowledge, but he's resistant to writing. He draws pictures sometimes, but the encyclopedic knowledge stays tucked away and hidden.

Reading about your daughter wanting to write a book about the subject just sparked an idea though that I'm going to try myself. Have you tried taking video of your daughter talking about it? It could be an easy outlet for her and a way for you to facilitate by interviewing her about it. It's just an idea for an easy way to help her get her opinions and knowledge out there without being hindered by motor skills.

She sounds delightful and I love when they get so involved into a big project like that!

I agree that you need to look into it further to see if there are any helpful tips and tools that can easily be implemented.

I also agree that you should scribe as she needs you to for her book.

You may want to check out the work by another highly gifted child author who started writing at the age of 5 or 6. There is even a lovely video on her website on how to write a book - aimed at aspiring child authors.

http://www.evaridenhour.com/

I had to run off so didn't finish what I wanted to say. I wouldn't' think of this as a failure at all. Doing this kind of focused reading/researching at her age isn't something most kids could handle.

What I might suggest is you try suggesting she turn her notes into perhaps "blog" posts or posters. Smaller tasks that can be done one subject at a time. Perhaps she can dictate & you can type and you can find links to pictures to illustrate. Print out pictures and paste them on poster board, have her try and "label" them. A large poster can be very satisfying to a kid this age. Be willing to be a scribe for her when it's necessary. I do think it's good to help her. Doing things like showing her how to organize, typing or writing out her ideas, helping her find appropriate content. What you don't want to do is take over the project or make her feel she HAD to do it.

This reminds me that when my kids were in preschool, a common activity they did was encourage all the students to draw a picture and tell a teacher a story about the picture. The teacher would then write the story on the bottom or back of the paper. The kids all loved this and it is a technique often used to teach early reading & writing. In my son's case he would write his own stories himself but that was unusual. The teacher would encourage the kids to write the title or as much as they could.

Another example, my older DD has LD's and needed a number of accommodations. One example is she took longer than her peers to learn to type. When her teachers would ask for an project to be typed (in upper elementary) I would sit my daughter in front of the computer with her handwritten work and ask her to type for ~30 minutes. When she was done I would "finish" typing it in for her spelling errors and all. I could do this usually in less than 5 minutes. It was painful to watch her type so slow, and I felt she should work on typing but not so long she got bogged down in it. I'd then show her how to fix her errors. The girl is now just finishing her sophomore year in college, and types very well. This never hurt in the long run.

Good Luck.

I was thinking the same thing. Another thought - do you think your dd would be open to y'all "writing" the book together? That way she could go through the rest of the process and learn from you as she does it? And if the only roadblock at this point is handwriting and organizing her thoughts, yes, I'd help her with that by scribing or showing her how to organize etc.

I also was wondering about the writing challenges - from your first mention, and then especially after reading that your dh is dysgraphic. I'll second DeeDee's advice to seek out a neuropsych eval now - what you're seeing happen at school can really hit the self-esteem in a big way in those early years of school for a child who has a writing challenge. I wish I'd had my dysgraphic ds eval'd earlier. Like your dd, he was compensating when he was 6 and no one realized that his refusal to write etc were anything other than 6 year old behaviors. By the time his behaviors and writing challenges had become a more obvious issue, he was most of the way through 2nd grade, and his anxiety was sky-high, and his self-esteem was really low. I would give anything to have known earlier so we could have started accommodations earlier. And even though he was only 8 at the time, fining out he was dysgraphic and understanding a bit about it really helped him feel better about himself.

Best wishes,

polarbear