Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New here/Ceiling Q's

Hi Everyone! I think I have come to the right place to ask this question... How do you know if your kid reached test ceilings?? This is for the WISC IV.... Here is the subtests scores:

Similarities 19
Vocabulary 19
Comprehension 15

Block Design 17
Picture concepts 19
Matrix Reasoning 19

Digit Span 14
Letter/Number 12
Arithmetic 17

Coding 9
Symbol Search 13

Obviously lots of scatter with the Processing speed stuff, so just curious to your thoughts!!
Thanks!!

From my limited understanding (DC did some recent testing), those 19s could indicate reaching the ceilings (I believe in some cases, even an 18 can be a ceiling, depending on subtest and age of the child). Did your tester use extended norms? In my experience, extended norms could make a big difference!

Also, I'm going to guess that as is common with MANY gifted kids, your DC's GAI would be even higher than FSIQ, and might be the better measure.

Those look like very high scores!

A ceiling is reached (from my understanding) under two circumstances. The child either answered all the questions with correct responses or the rule for stopping was not reached (like getting a certain number wrong in a row...)

This indicates that if there were more questions a higher score in that area might have been reached.

The 19s and yes some 18s indicate a ceiling may have been hit. Of course...19 may have been were your child naturally stopped. Given the number of 19s I'd highly expect ceilings were hit.

I would email your tester and inquire if ceilings were hit and with which subtests. Some testers will use extended norms to continue the questions and further gauge ability. And those can even be ceilinged!

As to GAI...with the processing speed I'd imagine GAI is a better indicator of overall academic success and intellectual ability. Ask your test if she/he will calculate GAI as well for you. Lower processing speed, from my understanding, is not unusual for young highly and profoundly gifted children.

Thanks!! They did calculate GAI and it's 155. FSIQ is 143. Qualified for everything we tested for so I don't think I NEED or even want (haha) higher scores but all the >16.10''s got me curious. He's 8.9.

No extended norms were used

Yes, score interpretation is best done by qualified professionals who've observed your child's testing. Interested parents who wish to acquaint themselves with general background information in preparation for discussion with their professional may conduct a websearch to find and read information in source documents found online and freely accessible to all, such as the WISC-IV Technical Report #4 General Ability Index dated January 2005 by Susan E.Raiford, Ph.D. Lawrence G.Weiss, Ph.D. Eric Rolfhus, Ph.D. Diane Coalson, Ph.D., and updated December 2008. This 20-page technical report states on page 3: and on page 17:
While referring practioners to their extensive score interpretation manuals for guidance, the technical report provides tables for assessing differences between predicted achievement scores and actual achievement scores for discrepancy analysis. Tables do not describe predicting GAI based on achievement scores.

My understanding is that VCI, and in particular working memory and processing indexes are important for success in a typical school. I certainly see this at home with my DS; he is intelligent but his deficits in executive function makes school and homework a challenge at times. Fortunately he is doing well now, but I worry about this impact as he gets older.

What really matters is understanding the root cause of the lower scores in working memory or processing speed, and understanding what's at the root of executive function challenges. There are many reasons that you may see these issues, and many of those reasons can be remediated/accommodated. Our dysgraphic ds has similar spread in coding vs other scores as the OP, and when he was in elementary school was extremely challenged with organizational skills. He receives accommodations for the challenge that impacts his coding subtest score (dysgraphia - he keyboards in all classes plus has accommodations for testing and other dysgraphic-typical accommodations), and we were able to remediate the organizational challenges by working with him intensively on those skills during 6th grade. Today he's doing very well in school, and isn't being held back at all (grade level/acceleration etc) by the disabilities that impact his coding score and executive function.

polarbear

eta - I'd add that in some ways, I feel like it was easier for ds to make progress in remediating and using accommodations as he got older, because he was able to understand how his challenges impact him and be an active part of coming up with his own solutions.

Interesting that most psychs do not seem to calculate extended norms. Both of my kids could have technically had this done (I think there needs to be a 19, or two 18's), but neither psych did it. I did it on my own for DD and it added about 5 points to her GAI and a few points to FSIQ.
I wonder why he had 3 tests done for working memory? And which were used in the scores? My kids each had two (DD had arithmetic and letter/number and DS had digit span and letter/number).

In terms of the GAI, the NAGC has a position paper on using the WISC in terms of identifying children for gifted programs. I turned this into the school with my DD's report, since her GAI was a lot higher than FSIQ. In her case, the coding score really brought her FSIQ down a lot. We do see this "slowness" reflected in school and it is meaningful, but most psychs would say that kids should be put at the right level in terms of reasoning ability, and be given supports for weaknesses in other areas (like speed). Some gifted kids are very careful and deep with their thinking and that slows them down. I don't think this should be viewed as a "problem" but it can seem like a problem in terms of lower scores. In other kids it represents a disability, like ADHD or poor motor skills. My DS's coding score was low because when he was tested his ability to write was abysmal. The same thing happened with block design, which is timed and involves motor skills. Some psychs would have deliberately substituted a different test, but the goal wasn't to find out if he was gifted, it was to identify problems due to a brain injury and delays.
http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455