Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment 1st grade + chaos + eval = twice exceptional dx

Same thing happened here with my two 2e kids in early elementary pre-diagnosis and before we had tutoring/accommodations/etc in place to help them. It's a really tough time and something that most teachers and parents don't understand either - I just wanted you to know that I understand, as well as (I suspect) the other 2e parents here.


polarbear [/quote]

You have no idea how important this is for me to hear. Well, maybe you do.

I believe in God. Two weeks ago, God and I had little chat. I did all the talking. I said, "Okay, here, God, I'm not sure why you thought I could handle parenting this incredible child, but she's out of my league and I'm out. Call in someone else. Thanks. Done."

So now, with WISC IV in hand, I can access special ed services for reading or key boarding, and get DD up to speed there. I can stomp my way into offices and meetings to get some OT and tutoring services for our normal-range-performing, but actually-under-achieving 2-e child, right? The IEP is going to be my main focus, right?

Priority: Diagnostics for reading disability
Priority: IEP for needed disability support services
Priority: Gifted education

Does anyone have recommendations on ordering these steps? Simultaneously? Chronologically?

Oh, and it occurs to me that DD does not have dyslexia because her vocabulary comprehension is not impaired, right?

I was also in a similar situation last year with DS7 and I can also sympathize. Homework was torture. DS is gifted but his processing speed was 9th percentile and his working memory was in the 50's or 60's. He didn't do anything at school and the teacher's solution was to send it home every night.

Once we had a psych report I took it to the VP and it turns out she had worked in the board's spec ed department and was most helpful. We had an IEP written up which included things like scribing and chunking assignments. Another thing that was helpful in our situation was that we shared some of the info with him (we weren't super specific). He was extremely frustrated that everyone else could write easily and thought he was stupid. The frustration was coming out in all sorts of fun behavior both at home and school.

We also got matched with a better teacher this year and it has been better. The school only wants to focus on the LD and feels differentiation is the answer for gifted but that is our next battle. I'm meeting with them tomorrow to start that discussion.

I don't have much for answers but I can definitely share in the joy that these kids bring

My son has dyslexia, dysgraphia, an auditory processing disorder, a working memory disorder and multiple character traits of Aspergers (autism) but no diagnosis because he doesn't meet the main criteria.

The dysgraphia wasn't just about slow - he didn't see the lines on the page or the red line on the side of the page. His writing when he was eight looked like the scratchings of a three year old. It took a lot of occupational therapy to get him to where he could hold a pencil and make legible letters. He is going into high school next year and still despises writing more than a few words. He will type an entire book - literally.

The dyslexia - he had many of the memorizing issues as well - couldn't memorize times tables, where state are on a map, couldn't tell time on a clock with a face. He still doesn't have his times tables memorized but has gotten very, very fast at counting up or down from the ones he can remember.

Dyslexia and Dysgraphia aren't really cookie cutter - what is extreme in one may not even be an issue for another. I just started reading and asking questions here and eventually put things together that finally made sense about why some things were easy for him and others weren't happening at all.

Best wishes with the placement! Sounds like a great opportunity.

This is quick because I don't have much time at the moment, so I hope it makes sense!

There is "dyslexia" and there are "reading challenges". Dyslexia has a traditional definition based on a checklist of abilities-vs-challenges that can be easily marked off yes/no in an evaluation - and those evaluations are fairly standard - but they don't include a host of other issues that might cause a student to struggle with reading. So a reading challenge might be dyslexia or it might be something else. Whatever it is, you need to find a way to teach your child to read and to accommodate what needs to be accommodated... sooo... the goal as I see it with reading challenges isn't an on/off switch for is it or isn't it dyslexia.

It also gets confusing because some professionals refer to dyslexia (the diagnosis) in a very narrow sense, as it's been officially defined), while others include a wider range of challenges when using the term. My dd has a dyslexia diagnosis from a reading specialist, and a report from another professional clearly stating that she does *not* have dyslexia. Yet both found the same actual challenge (inability to link/retain visual symbols to sound).

polarbear

Hi,

DS6 has wisc scores in that range and similar processing speed. I don't know if they "should be" reading at 6th grade level but yes DS is. DS does have fine motor issues and pretty serious attention problems (at least for school work) so I don't think those things alone are always sufficient to keep someone from reading. He is ahead in math too, not as much as reading. The attentional issues keep him from showing the math clearly at school as every third problem is wrong or simply left blank, despite him understanding it quite well.

Despite DS legally qualifying at least for a 504 and quite possibly for an IEP, he has neither, our school is I guess I would put it culturally opposed to those interferences. The school does informally provide a few accommodations but it would be much better to have something more consistent. We became concerned though that the level of antagonism we would create by forcing the issue might do more harm to DS than good. I got the sense there was a passive aggressive flavor to the interactions. So I hate to say it but for us IQ scores did not help the 504 effort at all, perhaps it even hurt. Hopefully your school will be different.

Instead we went to partial homeschool which had the wonderful side benefit of gutting the homework load. No one except the superintendent in our district knew it was an option, at least everyone appeared surprised. So just because it's never been done doesn't mean it for sure does not exist.

In addition we've informally arranged for DS to bring his own work from home for math, and I think the IQ scores helped with the open-ness to that idea. The school worksheets are multi-colored multipage cartoony disasters for adhd types, and the content isn't quite novel enough to hold his attention. The math teacher was unexpectedly and wonderfully open minded. It made DS happier.

I really feel the IQ scores have helped, but not in ways I necessarily could have predicted.

As far as the reading goes, I would try to find an out-of-school reading specialist to assess the issues. Someone who will not have any conflict of interest (sometimes a school assessor is under pressure to find particular findings, or not find anything, to avoid the school having to pay for the child to receive assistance or fit the child in to some particular person's over-busy schedule). Someone with impressive sounding credentials who can write a letter to the school suggesting particular helpful strategies.

I think obviously bright children can effectively be discrimated against in helping their specific learning issues because it's easy for the school to say to themselves, "The not so bright kids with no support at home are the ones that most need Mrs. Reading Specialist, Suzy with that mom that writes all the emails, she is obviously bright, she will learn to read sooner or later no matter what help she gets." That would be the thinking in my DS's school.

If you do want a 504 or IEP and the school is dragging their feet, if you can afford the expense you might look for a special ed advocate in your state. I paid one just for a couple phone conversations, it didn't end up costing much and they were really helpful in telling me how schools interpret the laws. I just kept track of the time and cut it off when I had gotten what I needed (otherwise they would have let me vent and I could have run up many hours of bills just venting). Some advocates will come to school meetings, etc... but for me just talking to one ahead helped me feel a calmer sense of entitlement. (Now take that with a grain of salt considering our efforts did not result in a 504 or IEP, LOL). Some will even know the ins and outs of your particular school district, who in the school is likely to be on your side and who isn't, etc.

Polly

Polly, good information.

I am not an engineer, but I have lots of the DNA, so I approach problems like this: I want to know every thing that can go wrong and just how bad it can get, then I think I can devise a plan that will work.

I'm still feeling optimistic.

I even think I found a school I can gain access to with an IEP, and yes, I think I can get DD an IEP with an advocate, lawyer or our evaluator's help. I can also work the UCLA angle - anything on their letterhead turns heads.

I *met with the admissions person at the school this morning - it's private, but the school district will pay the tuition when the district doesn't have the resources to meet the needs of the child. A stretch for DD, but I'm going to GO FOR IT.

Here's a link to the school, which has classes for students who are twice exceptional for ADHD (they have gifted curriculum). DD would be the youngest child:

http://www.summitview.org/about/

And this program - part of the same school - for Aspergers and giftedness:

http://www.thehelpgroup.org/school/village-glen-school/

Blackcat - keep me posted on how things go. We have some things in common, it seems.

Chay - how did your meeting go today?

Reality is setting in. I'm realizing getting and IEP is a big challenge. I'm digesting everything I'm reading and re-reading here. Thanks for your input, everyone. The psychologist we met with had such strong conviction that I bit. He did say we really need the full testing done by either the district before we can move forward, and even then, he said we may need to come back to him for reinforcement.

Thanks for asking, I guess I'd say it was good and bad.

Good on the LD side in that most of the accommodations in his IEP are no longer necessary and his writing (his weakness) is basically now at grade level. Last year it was like pulling teeth to get him to write a short sentence or even to get him to tell us what to write so we could scribe it. Now he's writing paragraphs with the occasional reminder to stay on task (and she said she does that for most of the kids). We're going to leave everything in the IEP for now in case the increased work next year makes it necessary again.

Bad in that differentiation is their only solution to the gifted side until the one day pull out starts in grade 4. I might be ok with that if they actually DID differentiation but they don't really. He just came home with another sheet of ridiculously easy math problems that his sister in kindergarten easily did. He's starting to get frustrated about the amount of repeating that is done and I suspect this will come out in his behavior eventually. At this point I'm just hoping we can make it through to the end of the year before it does and then we can regroup. I really do like this teacher and we've made some amazing progress on the LD side so this is going to have to wait. In a perfect world I'd home school math for him but I haven't figured out a way to get him out of their math.....

Definitely a journey and it's nice to know we're not alone. Good luck with the private school for your DD.

Chay, I needed to re-read your post on your DS's IEP for inspiration. I need a pep talk.

I just got off the phone with DD's school special ed rep and she said DD is doing well on her 504 with classroom accommodations and will not need an IEP because she is performing at grade level. We will not be requesting any more testing, she said. The district does not test for dyslexia, she said. She was very nice about the bad news, as well as sympathetic to my concerns.

As far as gifted programming goes, she said all second graders get tested with the OLSAT next year in the spring and DD can access gifted clusters in 3rd grade.

Well, I am glad I have scheduled to meet with a lawyer in a couple weeks. It's simply not acceptable to me that a giant school district is satisfied saying a child with an exceptional intellect is accommodating their own significant learning disabilities and therefore does not need district services.


arrrrgh!