Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New to this and have score questions

To give some context, my DS7 also has high VCI and PRI scores but his PSI was 9th percentile a year ago. Last year he was one of the slowest writers and rarely finished any assignment in class. He's improved a lot since then and is now to the point now where he blends in with his classmates and hasn't used the writing accommodations in his IEP for months.

A PSI of 98 is low compared to the rest of her scores but when you put her in a classroom of "average" kids it isn't likely to stick out especially with her other strengths to potentially compensate with.

I've heard that's common in girls especially--to mold to fit in.

Regarding the perfectionism, our tester noted perfectionism as the reason for his slower PSI, and we could certainly see that tendency and see its affect on ds's willingness to take risks. That said, he's also slow at computation. It comes from a need to be meticulous rather than not understanding the material or knowing the facts.

So last year we tried a couple of things, the first being challenging him to do a test he wasn't expected to do well on: the Explore. This was an above level test meant for 8th graders which he took in the fifth grade. He had a great experience. The other thing we did was agree to grade-skip him, again stressing to him that the most important thing is the challenge of it. If he got a B and it was clear that it was because he was being challenged, than we celebrated (getting a B was a horror to him) and now, though the perfectionism is still there, it has lessened its hold. It's wonderful to witness.

There are books which show readers how to free themselves from thought patterns which may not be serving them well. While insightful, these books are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. Parents may wish to pre-read and decide if a resource may be a helpful tool for their child. For example, one book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough. Another book you might like is Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good. Here is an article from the Davidson Database, Interview with Thomas Greenspon on Perfectionsim.

In what way did she "get in trouble"? Was her score not as high as usual? Did a teacher point her out?

Yes, unfortunately this may be common. This article from the Davidson Database mentions this in point 3.

indigo her teacher called her up to her desk to point out that she knew the material but because she was being careless (or quick, I guess the verdict is still out) she did poorly. She had finished the drill in two minutes and they are allowed seven. To her being called up by her teacher was horrible, she is very sensitive and honestly beats herself up about things so I thought it was probably not necessary for her teacher to point this out. She also only missed three problems out of 40, it was not like she bombed the thing. I sometimes think her teacher expects a little much of her. While high expectations are good, she is still just 7 years old.

I would encourage you to start googling gifted girls, perfectionism, underachievement. The SENG site has lots of great articles. The good news is your daughter is young and you can help her with these things. FWIW the violin helped my daughter a lot with perfectionism.

Yes, this type of hyper-focus on one's human errors (or errors possibly related to the bundle of traits often associated with giftedness) is unfortunate and can contribute to perfectionism, a child's internalized sense of being less-than, not good enough, or inferiority... between a rock and hard place. The child may learn it is bad to make mistakes; They may avoid challenge, developing a "fixed mindset" rather than a "growth mindset" and resilience. Additionally, the child may begin to treat others in the same fashion that has been role-modeled to her: hyper-critical.

I'm still thinking of the Winter Olympics... even among the best of the best, no performance is "perfect" but there are always winners! 37/40 (92.5%) on an exercise/assessment is good.

I second dg's suggestion to use web searches... there is a lot of information out there on gifted girls, perfectionism, underachievement... and hiding one's intelligence to fit in socially.

Some might suggest talking with your daughter about this experience, the facts, the impact upon her... and possibly including that the teacher is human too and may not always handle things optimally for each student, but she tries her best.

If your daughter is pointed out negatively again you may wish to contact the teacher and politely outline the facts... what occurred, the unintended negative impact. You may wish to consider including resources, or a mention of resources which back you up with research by recognized experts.

At home, you may wish to keep a dated journal with entries describing any such events. This may help you discuss with your daughter, possibly with the school, possibly with any possible future tester/professional... while having things in a factual context and in perspective.

If, on the other hand, a teacher told a student, "there are 5 minutes left, you may wish to keep your paper and check your work" (without giving the child any special advantage as to which problems to check, that there are three to look over, etc), this may be a positive experience. The teacher could make a blanket statement to all children, to keep their paper and check their work.

psychland, why did your dd's teacher suggest she go through testing? Was it only to check the level of ability/giftedness, or did she have concerns about something?

It sounds like your dd is doing very well in school other than possible perfectionism and not wanting to stand out as different from her peers. The perfectionism might explain the relatively low score in processing speed.

OTOH, there are some of us here with children with similar gaps in processing speed vs WISC VIQ & PRI, where the gap is present due to a challenge that impacts our children at school. In some of our cases, those challenges weren't obviously apparent at 7 years old - and the signs that were there were (in my case) mistaken as things that were happening due to perfectionism, high IQ, lack of academic challenge etc. Although I doubt there is any reason to suspect a learning challenge for your dd, I would keep those scores in the back of my mind just in case something does seem to crop up in school.

The other thing that might be helpful to share here is subtest scores - for instance, the relatively low processing score might come from two subtest scores that are similar or from averaging a high and low subtest score. If you have a high and low subtest score, there may be more reason to suspect something more than perfectionism is up (or it may be she was just plain tired or bored during that one subtest).

Best wishes,

polarbear

Did you ask the tester if he/she thought that the achievement scores were in line with the IQ scores - in other words, would he or she expect to see higher achivement scores. That might get to if there is something else going on with that lower PSI.

My DS has a similar spread in his VIC/PSI and he has always been really slow (both #s are a little higher than your DD). Also, he would not have sat and done 40 problems at one time at age 7 and likely would not now at age 10.

One other thing to think about is the rigor of the work she was doing – was it 40 problems that she has known how to do for 2 years or was it something that stretched here. My DS does better on above grade level testing but his performance on state yearly grade level tests has decreased the last few years – he simply cannot maintain focus for long periods on work that he no longer needs to practice.

BTW, my DS did grade skip and was later diagnosed with ADHD. He is in a self-contained HG classroom and is still not being exposed to curriculum at his level on any regular basis.

Polarbear no concerns, she was doing very well and seemed to be catching on to everything that she was teaching her very easily. I looked at the scores a little more and called the company to ask a few stats question. DD only did poorly on one subtest (coding 8)the other (symbol search-11) she seemed to do okay on. However, the report noted that she did get all the answers correct on block design but timed out on the last few. The women I talked to about the stats said that the sample size for scores in the range I was talking about were not very solid as the population they were normed on was very small. Also, she said that extended norms should have been used on the verbal subtests and on matrix reasoning. Anyone know anything about extended norms ?

The psychologist gave me a copy of the front page of the tests. The lady asked about the raw scores before telling me about extended norms?