We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum. CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.
Hi - I am new here (from Australia - we don't see to have anything vaguely resembling the support network you have in the USA). My background is that I have three lovely boys (8,6 and 4) and the oldest two have been identified as gifted. My concern is for the elder boy (8) who has widely varying scores. The pyschologist gave him the WISC-IV test but didn't give us individual scores just the overall scores. These were:
VCI: 144 PRI: 112 WMI: 129 PSI: 94
Yes, wide variation ! We have since taken our son to see an OT specialist to look at reasons why his PS may be so low. It has been suggested that he has auditory processing disorder. The school don't see this however, principally because he learnt to read incredibly quickly. The outcome of all this testing also showed he has dyspraxia and sensory integration disorder. A lot of labels !
I asked the pyschologists about calculating a GAI and she said that she had never heard of it. I didn't want to push the issue so thought I would do some research of my own, but despite looking through the technical report no.4, I can't seem to find a description of how to calculate it based on these numbers alone.
Hi Jennie and welcome! We have some people here who are great with test scores and numbers, etc. and I am sure they will have lots of advice. For calculating the GAI you can go to www.appliedgifteded.com/gai_worksheet-appliedgifteded.pdf .
I'm looking for my Tech Report for the WISCIV. If you google "WISCIV Technical Report IV" it should pull it up for you. OK I found it and here is a clip but I"m not finding what I'm looking for.
Our resident score guru is AWK (away w/out keyboard) but she'll be back. In order to calculate the GAI, you need the scaled scores of the subtests for VCI and PRI.
I seem to remember you need less than 22 pt spread between VCI and PRI and a greater than 22 pt spread between VCI/PRI and WMI/PSI in order to consider GAI but I can't find where I read that. I'm not sure w/ your son's VCI and PRI spread, that looking at GAI will adequately portray him either. There is a WISCIV Excel spreadsheet I've used in looking at DS's WISCIV scores. I think the unusual spread for VCI/PRI is >20pt spread and your son's is 32 pts.
Thanks for your advice. We feel like we are drowning a bit at the moment. The pyschologist was not the nicest - she just didn't connect with DS at all - she glossed over the achievment side of things and just concentrated on the "disorder" side. When we showed DS's school the report, they said it is was like reading about a completely different child. None of it made sense. As an example, she felt that DS was borderline aspergers - the school couldn't understand this at all (and given they have a fair few aspergers kids, I trust their opinion). Yes, DS can be quirky, it takes him a while to trust someone and open up, he fidgets a lot, but he basically is a average kid with above average academic skills. Maybe we are burying our heads in the sand, but given that nobody else has ever raised this issue, it came a bit out of the blue. The pschycologist is reluctant to give us his sub-test scores, and I am not sure why. I still find it hard to believe that she didn't know what a GAI was. She said his FSIQ was 127 but that it was inaccurate due to his 32 point gap. Sorry for the long winded reply, we are just trying to undertand all of this information, and resources are a bit scarce in Australia.
Yes his FSIQ is not very helpful. What you need are the scaled scores for each of the subtests. That will tell you where the spread lies. DId he have 16, 12, 8 on PRI or PSI? Or was it 10, 10, 10. Also, my son's psych made a calculation error, I would have never known had I not had the scaled scores. You need to get those scaled scores. I know my friend's Dd's psych was reluctant to get them but she insisted and he gave them in the end.
And if she didn't connect w/ him at all, it makes the whole test situation suspect. A lot seems to depend on the interaction between tester and testee.
hugs, I'm sorry the psych is making this difficult.
Tell the psych the school wants you to get the subtest scores because the FSIQ is not accurate due to the spread. She said as much herself, didn't she?
I'm sorry the tester would not give you the subtest scores. I find that quite odd. You are right to seek out help from the GT community, I'm sorry that you don't find strong support where you are in Australia. I don't know much about GT education in Australia, except what I have read about Terrence Tao. It seems disapointing to me that a child's educational needs could by stymied by politics, but it is so to an extent in all countries, I suppose. I don't know if this will help you, but here goes:
specifically, Jodie Valpied. I don't know if this group is within a reasonable distance. I also have no personal knowlege, just have a good feeling from what I have read.
Good luck and I hope you figure out what is going on for your son. It certainly warrants further investigation.
Here's the link to the technical report Jennie mentioned:
To calculate the GAI you need to know the General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores.
Quote
The General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores is the sum of scaled scores for three Verbal Comprehension subtests (i.e., Vocabulary, Comprehension, and Similarities) and three Perceptual Reasoning subtests (i.e., Block Design, Matrix Reasoning, and Picture Concepts)...
Locate the General Ability Sum of Scaled Scores in the extreme left column of Table 1. Read across the row to determine the GAI composite score.
Hi Jennie, I'm also in Aust & also have 3 boys (12,9 & 8) as well as a 4yo dd. All have been Id'd as gifted, the oldest two as HG+. I empathise with you - the psych who tested my 8yo wouldn't even give me a FSIQ, stating that his "unique set of thinking & reasoning abilities make his overall intellectual fuctioning difficult to summarise by a single score on the WISC-IV as his verbal abilities are better developed than his perceptual reasoning abilities." Duh!! And while the report listed the subtests & what they measured, it didn't show his subtest scores, but just a qualitative description for the range in which he fell (well above average, above average, high average etc.) I thought about following up & asking for the scale scores so I could calculate a FSIQ & GAI (I doubt she would have known what it was either), but the psych confirmed his placement in a GT class which was the reason he was tested in the first place, so I didn't bother. I don't know why there seems to be such a reluctance here to give parents all the information. I know when an Ed Dept psych tested my older boys it was the same scenario. Only descriptors, not scale scores or IQ scores, & IQ was only represented as a percentile rank.
But with regards to your son, does his school recognise the need for GT accommodations based on his high VCI? I wouldn't stress too much about what a psych who has only spent an hour or two says if it doesn't fit with what you see in your child every day. Use the psych report for what it gives you - confirmation that your son IS gifted, has an extremely high verbal IQ, so will need adjustments to the curriculum to ensure he remains engaged & challenged, & might need some support to overcome some motor difficulties which resulted in below average processing speed.
It can be overwhelming, so feel free to vent your frustration as required!
Thank you so much for your support ! I know it sounds odd, but I am sitting here with tears in my eyes as I feel that finally someone understands our situation. The school, to be honest, find the whole gifted thing amusing. They looked at the reports for both the elder boys, and commented "wow, aren't they lucky to be so clever", and then said "we don't really have anything available to offer them, we only have extra programs for those who are having difficulties". There is NO government funding for gifted education at primary school level (for USA readers, this is 5 years up to 12 years). We do what we can at home (but it can be exhausting - DS6 just wanted to keep telling me facts about orca whales last night while i just wanted to chill and watch TV), but are unsure how much to push the school as it seems that nmore we push, the more the teachers turn away. I don't know any other parents with gifted children, so support is not easy to come by. I have now sent the psychologist an e-mail asking for the subtest scores (again). This is the wimps way out - I could ring her, but by e-mail I can sound more assertive !
