Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums High School I am very disapointed

Thanks. He has had a chance to see the tests, but I don't think he see's any reason to take notes on it. He can make an appointment to see the teacher and go over the test. I expect him to(this is what I expect when my kids get a bad grade), but at this time I think it's best he wait till after he takes the final. I have been resisting this, but perhaps it is a better long term strategy for him to drop to the regular class for the rest of the year. If he can pull a high A in the regular class, than he might be moved back to H. Pre-Calc next year and he might get a better teacher. The con is that my son tends to get bored if a class is too easy, and thus less likely to get the high A that he would need. On the other hand even regular Algebra II in freshman year isn't a regular class.

I don't have much offer. My ds14 took Honors Algebra 2 last year. This was a kid that went through 6 years of math in 3 years. That class almost killed him. It was challenging in a way he never expected. The teacher basically said from the beginning of the year that her class was much harder than anything in the text book. She did give homework harder as well. The exams were normally very long problems with a combination of skills applied together. The task didn't involve understanding individual skills but how to apply them appropriately in one question.

My DS midterm ended up taking him 2 1/2 hours. It was a real bear for him the first semester. She also took back the test, but she had extra help 5 days a week. My DS started going for extra help daily and reworking the missed problems on the exams with her. She was very helpful and supportive to help a struggling student. In the end, my DS did well in the class. It's was a very difficult class for him and it was the first time in his life he was challenged. Which probably add to his difficultly because he was getting so anxious about the class and was filled with self doubt. He had never before had to earn his grades. It wasn't a bad experience as whole, but it did involve a helpful supportive teacher.

I would really ask for a sit down with you and your son to see how the teacher and you can support him in the class.

On a side note~ My family thinks Algebra 2 was harder for them than Calculus.

Is this a situation where student are expected to solve more complex problems, using novel combinations of basic things they have been taught? If so, that's a good thing, though it should start earlier.

Thanks, it does help to hear this. My son does say that he isn't the only one complaining that these tests are very hard. And the test questions are as you described long problems with combinations of skills applied together. I just wish he had more homework problems that were more like the test questions. I am going to insist we sit down with the teacher but since the semester final is quite a different test, I am leaving him to focus on that first.

Yes it's a good thing but as he is struggling with it he needs more practice doing this kind of problem. I tried looking for practice books & online problems sets but it's harder to find practice problems that are relevant. Most standard extra practice books are just more of the simple problems.

We found the same thing. Just finding more problem was not a solution. My DS could do those without an issue. The real key for DS was the teacher had daily extra help sessions for all of her students. She really worked to help them learn the material. I hope you find your teacher supportive. My initial impression was not correct about our teacher. She seem harsh and cold in the parent info night. When I reach out to her and ask what we could do to help him. She stepped right up to help with us.

Just remember 14 yr old boys tend be flakes. These smart kids are in classes that require more maturity and responsibility from them. It can be a hard balance between ability and maturity.

My favorite magnet on my fridge say, " Raising teenagers is like trying to nail jello to a tree"

DD14, now a senior, needed a LOT of additional help from me when she took Alegebra II as a freshman. This is now a "killer" class-- I mean, I always remember it being hard, but several additional factors made it way harder for my DD. She didn't really have any instruction until the 'regular' teacher came back from maternity leave in late January, so until the second midterm, I had no idea that she was getting NO actual instruction in the course. It was crazy-hard.

Ahem.

Anyway-- wanted you to know that it may really not be anything that your ds is doing wrong here. It might just be a matter of showing the teacher that he is committed to trying HARDER, and figuring out HOW to do well in the class-- which means meeting with the teacher, maybe fairly frequently. Honestly, I don't know that I would wait-- because that signals to the teacher that the GRADE is the thing... not the learning. (If that makes sense.) A student concerned by those earlier exams and what they represent re: course mastery would be in there asking for help from the teacher NOW, regardless of what a cream-puff the final is expected to be. Part of this is about playing the game. Yes, that, too, is a learning experience. HS students have to learn to DEMONSTRATE that they are the kind of student who is worthy of the benefit-of-the-doubt.

Yes, on some level that is "sucking up" behavior, but it may be what it takes to meet other goals longer term, right?

You have my sympathies. As another member and I have commiserated over the past year.... it's just always math, isn't it??

I think that there are several things at play here. The first is how your son feels about all this - I know you had issues last year with organization... is he putting forth the effort in these classes that they need? Does he really want to be in them?
As far as math, I don't see ANY problem with you being involved. He's a freshman in HS, not college, and I would expect he'd still need guidance. Many college students like studying with a partner. I think it is a question of whether you are the one pushing on this or he is (does he ask for your help?). I think you absolutely should go in and sit down with the teacher and your son and look at the tests. That is not uncommon at all at our HS (our kids also can't bring home tests). For all you know, it's a lot of stupid mistakes, not really a lack of understanding. And if you've been helping him with studying, you're probably in a really good position to evaluate how the tests relate to what they've been learning. I don't think that it's a bad idea to have tests be an extension, but there has to be some relation to what they've been doing in class.
I'm surprised his school is dropping him levels so quickly. At our HS, that's nearly impossible because many of the honors/non-honors classes use different books. It's pretty much unheard of to change levels after the first 12 days. And I think many kids are a bit overwhelmed the first semester of HS (although I have to admit, as the parent of a kid who will be doing honors AlgII/Trig, Honors Bio, Honors Eng and AP World next year, you are scaring me a bit ;)).
Have you read his English essays? If he has been doing literary analysis since 4th grade, I think you need to figure out why he's struggling so much. At our school, kids from both the regular and gifted programs go into honors Eng in HS and the HS honors class definitely starts out providing step-by-step instruction (usually boring to the kids who were in the gifted class). That's a really important skill, and with such a gap between the honors and regular classes at your school, you want to make sure he's not going to to go to regular and just coast along and not learn anything. Which would bring me back to - is it lack of ability or lack of effort on his part? Could he just be feeling overwhelmed and want to retreat back to regular classes because he knows it will be easy? I don't think kids need to be in all honors, but you want him working at a level that is interesting and challenging to him.
Finally, congrats on all your work getting him into the honors science -that seems to be going the best of everything, so you should feel great that you got him in the right class!!

Thanks.. At our school you can drop levels for the first month or so of the semester and then again at semester break. No I haven't seen the essays. Essays are written IN CLASS, until senior year. (Yet another anti-cheating issue.) He himself tells me that he is confused at what the teacher is looking for. Honestly this doesn't surprise me, it's the math that has been frustrated. I am not sure I ever really "got" literary analysis either. It's not that he is that bad at writing, just can't figure out what needs to be said about the books.

He wants to be in the honors classes. He was in a gifted pullout program in 4-6th grade, that almost brainwashed the kids that this is what they were expected to do in H.S. I will talk with him today about going to see his math teacher tomorrow. I guess one of the reasons I wanted him to wait, is I didn't want the teacher to push for him to drop to "regular" until we had seen what he was capable on the final.

Sigh... I do understand the cheating issue, but you'd think that they could come up with new essay topics each year! My son, who is very literal, sometimes misses what they are looking for as well, and it's been extremely helpful to go over his essays with him. I think sometimes gifted kids see the world in a bit of a quirky way! I am sure that your son (and mine, I hope :)) will eventually get a better sense of what the average teacher is looking for, but it's frustrating that the students at your son's HS can't take home the tests/essays and spend a little time learning from them. For my son, the right answer was usually in his brain, but he didn't seem to always understand how to match up the correct information with what the teacher wanted, if that makes sense.
Good luck meeting with the teacher, whenever you do it. Don't be afraid to push back on her recommendation to drop him if you feel like he is in the right class!