Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Wechsler subtest ceilings

I know many of you are quite knowledgeable about testing, so I thought that you might know: at what score do you begin to suspect your DC may have hit some subtest ceilings? I was recently given just an FSIQ from DD's WASI test (no PIQ or VIQ). I am almost positive no extended norms were used (and I am not even certain that they are available for this test - it looks like they probably are not).

DD has taken quite a few tests recently to get into her school's G&T (she got in for now - they are reassessed in a couple of years in order to stay in), so I am not eager to put her through additional testing. Still, I am wondering if I really have a handle on her. My goal is to meet her current and future educational needs.

I am also wondering whether I should keep an eye on DYS for her (more for potential future use)...but I REALLY want to minimize additional testing.

Thanks to advice here, she will be taking at least one more test: I plan to have her sit for an upcoming Explore test.

Would DYS possibly take a WASI FSIQ (the VIQ or PIQ might also qualify, but I do not have them), or is it possible to get the WASI test results from the school, take them to a private examiner and have them complete the additional subtests for a full WISC (thus avoiding the "training effect" of completely redoing the subtests)? I do not think the school has any interest in completing the WISC. Again, I would prefer to minimize additional testing for DD.

I do think I need to ask her school for more complete test results. Other than the PIQ and VIQ, is there anything I should be asking for?

TIA!

Thanks master of none - I may end up contacting them if I cannot find the answers. I did check the database here, and a while back, at least one list member used a WASI, with other things to get a DC into DYs - but she had different additional tests available, and I do not see her around here currently. From what I understand (learning here), the WASI FSIQ is actually somewhat like a WISC GAI, because memory and processing speed subtests (the very ones that gifted children often score lower on, although I suspect DD MAY be a quick processor) are not included. I know that DYS takes parts of the WISC, not just the FSIQ, so I'd love to know if anyone has had any success with other versions of the Wechsler test.

I am happy to share scores privately - I just do not feel comfortable posting them here.

The WASI FSIQ is above the minimum, but I don't have the VIQ or PIQ - those may qualify, too.

Poor DD - hard to believe that after all of those tests, she still hasn't taken the right tests...but there it is!

If you go to the index on the forum and select the overview of the Davidson young scholar programme there is a link that will take you to their site which has the admission criteria and acceptable tests.

Thanks, puffin. I have reviewed this, and that is one reason why DD will take Explore. Still, since WASI is an abbreviated WISC, I am trying to figure out what can be done to satisfy the WISC requirements (since she already had to take subtests very similar to the WISC).

The WASI is a screening, not an actual IQ test. You would need to do the entire WISC - IV not just portions to get WISC IV results. As it is a screening, IQ scores may or may not reflect scores on the WASI. Some kids do really well on it and not on the WISC IV because it tests some different things than the WISC IV. Vice versa, some kids score better on the WISC IV as it appeals more to their strengths.

The MAP, CogAT, ITBS also are not IQ tests but more achievement tests. These are not accepted for DYS.

We posted at the same time. The WASI is a screening and the subtests are not the same nor are they nearly as long.

Thanks qxp - yes, I know those other tests (except CogAT, which seems like an "academic reasoning test," of sorts) are achievement, and not IQ tests, thanks, though! I have noticed that they are not listed and that is why DD will take Explore.

I ran across this, but I think I have as many questions, as answers from reading it:

Using the WASI with the WISC

Just to clarify, the school required the WASI testing for its own purposes (it would not have been my first choice), but now that it has been completed, I am wondering the next best steps to take. I have some lead time waiting for DD to obtain scores from Explore to see whether those would be helpful, so I'd like to get the IQ testing figured out in the meantime. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the WISC and WASI tests were similar enough that there may be risk of "training effect" and that subtests from one might be used to complete another (some of this is discussed above in link added) - again, I am learning about the IQ testing - that is new to me. Thanks, again, everyone!

One option is to get achievement testing, then submit the achievement testing and a portfolio (fulfilling the basic requirements) with the WASI as supplemental material. You said you are planning on the Explore anyway, so you could use that with a portfolio.

My daughter had taken the RIAS and Davidson said I could submit her score as supplemental evidence, but we went ahead had a full WISC-IV assessment.

They may have changed their policy and you would have to check, but that's another possibility to consider.

Edited to add - as far as ceilings, it varies on different tests, but I know the guideline for possibly using extended norms is hitting 18 or 19.

Thanks, apm221 - I will need to wait and see if Explore testing is helpful.

Is additional testing (not listed) "portfolio" material or something else? Does anyone think they actually consider testing outside the list (not as a replacement, but as helpful additional material)?

For example, for supplemental materials, do they consider MAP testing? Is this helpful or useless The only reason I wonder whether it might be helpful is to perhaps demonstrate work 2-3 years above.

DD8 (3rd grade) has Fall MAP test reading scores that are:
99% for 3rd grade
--% for 4th grade
--% for 7th grade
75% for 10th grade
(edited - privacy)

Math MAP was also high (99%), but (lower than reading).

I am hoping that Explore testing gives us a better idea of where she is at and how to best meet her needs. The G&T is a great start, but it is limited in focus. DD loves science (they do very little in school at this point) and sending her to science enrichment courses is getting expensive (and unfortunately, are not always offered)! I am envious of those of you with magnet schools!

You would have to ask them, but they told me that they would look at additional testing as supplementary material. I think you could include the MAP scores in a portfolio as well.